Did Jack the Ripper even exist?

[DarkPassenger]

'Such precise mutilations - or consistent, should I say.'
That doesn't sit too well though with the concept of a 'frenzied' attack, does it?

I never said anything about a frenzied attack - the mutilations were fairly consistent in all victims, and the MO was pretty straightforward and consistent.

I'm quite prepared to believe that the mythical monster we know as 'Jack the Ripper' never existed at all.
As I have often pointed out I have found similar cases from the LVP where prostitutes have been viciously attacked in a robbery where the attempts by the robbers to remove the victim' stays and skirts with blades to get at their secret pocket has resulted in what could be seen later as a frenzied attack upon their person rather than their possessions.
Many of these cases showed a total disregard for the life of the woman who was being robbed, and knife wounds to the throat, breasts, abdomen and genitalia were not uncommon.

Capt'n Jack said earlier that prostitutes were known to keep their money in their "money boxes," or uteri. I'll concede - this seems to me, to be a good enough reason why the Ripper was obviously aiming to remove the uterus of each victim.

I think it both amusing and rewarding to refelect on some research I did here on site some years ago, which showed that the same number of East End women were either murdered, or severely injured, in attacks with blades in 1887, 1888 and 1889.
So if we accept as fact that Jack the Ripper existed then his murderous rampage had no impact on the statistics of murder in that time slice of the LVP, which must mean that he never existed.
Because if a serial killer suddenly starts operating in a very restricted area of Whitechapel then the statistics would surely reflect that peculiar situation.

You're using the same logic as Wilson when considering why the elderly are over-victimized in Britain, by serial killers. He asked why the number of elderly victims are in their hundreds, far higher than any other group - forgetting that over three quarters of his sample were killed by Shipman alone, skewing the numbers considerably.
You're saying that Jack's killing spree should show up as a spike in murder statistics, except that he only killed five victims in a district full of murder, hardly a spike in activity. If anything, you're inference shows either that Jack's been killing for years and years, or that he only killed his five victims in three months or so.

Or two?
Or none.
What about the torso killings?

They do not match Jack's MO and certainly do not seem to tie in with the idea that the victims were killed for their money (hidden in their uteri).

Think that was Anderson...'tho exactly what he meant by it....??
Steve

Hi Steve,

Thats the "rub" really isnt it. Is there suggestion that the investigations failed to result in a arrest and conviction because they lacked the powers to act? They did do door to door searches and entered and inspected premises...so it seems to me that they were allowed private dwelling access authority at least. So what additional powers did they need to make it happen?

I think one area that may justify that is the period of incarceration allowed for suspicion only...I believe France allowed for holding without bail indefinitely for violent crimes at that time.

Perhaps this rears its head in the signature verifications they sought from San Francisco for Tumblety...maybe they wanted to be able to hold people longer to check them out.

Cheers Steve.

[Steve S]

Which investigation was it that an authority representative suggested that if they had the same rights as their counterparts in France for example they would have been able to find and catch the fiend.

Think that was Anderson...'tho exactly what he meant by it....??
Steve

[Mike Covell]

Still trying to wrap my head around Jack being taken as a normal hack and slash robber. Apparently he thought Chapman and Eddowes kept their change purses in their uteri.

Maybe he was after Blood Money!

[Cap'n Jack]

Or two?
Or none.
What about the torso killings?

[Barnaby]

Even if the numbers stayed the same from year to year, the perpetrators committing them surely vary. In 1888 there just happens to be 3-5 very similar murders in a very short period of time. I think it is safe to say we have a serial killer here.

I think I fall on the side of Allys post...in that we do not have run of the mill murders here, despite the relative stability of the overall numbers.

Which investigation was it that an authority representative suggested that if they had the same rights as their counterparts in France for example they would have been able to find and catch the fiend.

Is this just Monday morning quarterbacking?

Best regards all

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks for unearthing those stats, Simon. Extremely interesting.

[Cap'n Jack]

The reports are based on the entire Metropolitan area, of course, Ally, but just like Tom you need your ABC bricks before you can grasp at detail.
It's been four or five years since I looked at the research I did then, but I do believe it was 17, 17 and 17 for the East End of London in 1887, 1888 and 1889, I won't swear to that as I do not go over research which I have already completed.
That's for others to do, but you obviously not.

Not for nothing is a prostitutes genitalia referred to as the 'money box' in crude English, for that is where they stashed their loot when in fear of attack, or as close as they could get.
I'd like to know your opinion of how a potential robber would know that it was worth rolling over a prostitute in the LVP for the money she carried about her complicated personage?
Was it her age, her dress, or was it simply that she was out late at night and was an easy target?.
Or could it have been based on the strange tattoos these women carried which related them to the powerful gangs and pimps of the East End?
So if they strayed out of the protective patch of their pimps they could be easily murdered, as strays, and all of the three victims wandered out of their patch.

[Steve S]

Apparently he thought Chapman and Eddowes kept their change purses in their uteri.

[Ally]

So the previous five years before 1888 the number of murder cases mean was 31, and in 1888 that number was 36.

An increase of exactly five. Huh. Yeah. Nothing at all indicative there.

Still trying to wrap my head around Jack being taken as a normal hack and slash robber. Apparently he thought Chapman and Eddowes kept their change purses in their uteri.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Cap'n Jack,

Funny you should mention that . . .

Despite his best efforts JtR did not cause a serious impact on London murder figures.

In a paper on crime figures for the period ending 1887/88 presented by George Grosvenor to the Royal Statistical Society in 1890, the following figures were presented—



In discussing the report James Monro had this to say—



Regards,

Simon

[Cap'n Jack]

'Such precise mutilations - or consistent, should I say.'
That doesn't sit too well though with the concept of a 'frenzied' attack, does it?
I'm quite prepared to believe that the mythical monster we know as 'Jack the Ripper' never existed at all.
As I have often pointed out I have found similar cases from the LVP where prostitutes have been viciously attacked in a robbery where the attempts by the robbers to remove the victim' stays and skirts with blades to get at their secret pocket has resulted in what could be seen later as a frenzied attack upon their person rather than their possessions.
Many of these cases showed a total disregard for the life of the woman who was being robbed, and knife wounds to the throat, breasts, abdomen and genitalia were not uncommon.

I think it both amusing and rewarding to refelect on some research I did here on site some years ago, which showed that the same number of East End women were either murdered, or severely injured, in attacks with blades in 1887, 1888 and 1889.
So if we accept as fact that Jack the Ripper existed then his murderous rampage had no impact on the statistics of murder in that time slice of the LVP, which must mean that he never existed.
Because if a serial killer suddenly starts operating in a very restricted area of Whitechapel then the statistics would surely reflect that peculiar situation.

[DarkPassenger]

I doubt it. Such precise mutilations - or consistent, should I say.

[DVV]

or was it just a bunch of pimp thugs who were trying to teach the working girls of whitechapel a lesson or two?

What do you think?

Hi Grim,
what kind of pimp wiould take so much risk for Nichols, Chapman, etc...?? Rather than "working girls", they were desperate and dying women.

Amitiés,
David