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Ernest Crawford's Tale

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  • Ernest Crawford's Tale

    Despite the fact that the following letter has been in the public domain for over 12 years, it has received very little attention or analysis. It is a letter written by Ernest Crawford of Bath to George R. Sims in 1907. Anyone up for research/discussion?

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    SPE

    Treat me gently I'm a newbie.

  • #2
    One form of research might be to try and establish the name of the individual who was an editor of magazies,a reformist, an inventor,and a well known person all rolled into one.Could't have been too many.

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    • #3
      Stead?

      Originally posted by harry View Post
      One form of research might be to try and establish the name of the individual who was an editor of magazies,a reformist, an inventor,and a well known person all rolled into one.Could't have been too many.
      Thanks for that Harry, one suggestion was that it might fit Stead, but it's not known that he was an inventor.
      SPE

      Treat me gently I'm a newbie.

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      • #4
        My thoughts were Stead or Stephenson, but neither were inventors.

        Perhaps a list of inventors with the surname begining with S will help.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors#S
        Regards Mike

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        • #5
          Hi Stewart

          I would be interested in seeing the article by George Sims if you have it, or can point me to where I can find it.

          The Jesuit centre if it existed could have been a school or college as they were known for their teaching/missionary work. There was a lot of prejudice against Jesuits which may account for the accusation.

          Whenever I read of how a prostitute of the time would have serviced her clients - from behind, or against a wall while she lifted her skirts etc, I have never seen mention of the possibility of the offer of oral sex. Is there any reason for this?

          No idea who Mr S. is but the "from behind" theory does remind me of RDS

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          • #6
            George R Sims

            Originally posted by Nemo View Post
            Hi Stewart
            I would be interested in seeing the article by George Sims if you have it, or can point me to where I can find it.
            In 1993 I discovered the Lloyd's Weekly News article 'My Criminal Museum' by George R. Sims, 'Who was Jack the Ripper?' (September 22, 1907). Since then it has been widely available. There should be a transcript somewhere on the Casebook. In fact it was this letter that led me and Keith Skinner to track it down.
            SPE

            Treat me gently I'm a newbie.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nemo View Post
              Whenever I read of how a prostitute of the time would have serviced her clients - from behind, or against a wall while she lifted her skirts etc, I have never seen mention of the possibility of the offer of oral sex. Is there any reason for this?
              It would take either a very brave, or a very foolish, Ripper to attempt to kill a woman engaged in such an act, Nemo.

              Don't forget that all the Ripper victims still had most of their own teeth!
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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              • #8
                It is also possible that he could have been very clever rather than brave/foolish to get his victims into a position where they expected oral sex. The knife might have arrived before the parting of the trousers.
                Regarding the letter, it would all make much more sense if we substituted Fenians for Jesuits. I would guess that the writer is hinting at such a possibility - with the talk of infiltrating foreign detectives into the service. I can only imagine the only possibility of the "Jesuit College" was the Providence Row Convent. Perhaps a Fenian Conspiracy had become a Jesuit/Catholic Conspiracy to this writer. Only a guess, of course.

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                • #9
                  Hi Jez,
                  Originally posted by Jez View Post
                  It is also possible that he could have been very clever rather than brave/foolish to get his victims into a position where they expected oral sex. The knife might have arrived before the parting of the trousers.
                  It strikes me that having someone kneel (or preparing to kneel) in front of you would be an extremely awkward position from which to launch a surprise attack on their neck, whether the intention was to strangle or to cut the throat. In both cases, you'd be pushing the victim away from you at an inconvenient angle - your purchase, and the force you were able to exert being thereby compromised. If the knife were deployed in that position, not only would you have to cut away from you, but there'd be a significant risk of your trousers and boots getting drenched in blood. It follows that the victims' coats/blouses would also have received a fair soaking on several occasions - but that's apparently not what was seen.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    Hi Jez,It strikes me that having someone kneel (or preparing to kneel) in front of you would be an extremely awkward position from which to launch a surprise attack on their neck, whether the intention was to strangle or to cut the throat. In both cases, you'd be pushing the victim away from you at an inconvenient angle - your purchase, and the force you were able to exert being thereby compromised. If the knife were deployed in that position, not only would you have to cut away from you, but there'd be a significant risk of your trousers and boots getting drenched in blood. It follows that the victims' coats/blouses would also have received a fair soaking on several occasions - but that's apparently not what was seen.
                    Sam, if you had to cut somebody's throat, wouldn't you rather they kneel innocently before you? Blood flows can be avoided easily when you're standing over the victim.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mike Covell View Post
                      My thoughts were Stead or Stephenson, but neither were inventors.
                      Stead is often acknowledged as the inventor of the "New Journalism", but I suppose that's too much of a stretch. And if that letter has been available for twelve years, Stewart, I completely overlooked it. Thanks for the post.

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                      • #12
                        Hi Jez,
                        Originally posted by Jez View Post
                        Sam, if you had to cut somebody's throat, wouldn't you rather they kneel innocently before you? Blood flows can be avoided easily when you're standing over the victim.
                        Throats can't be deeply severed from ear to ear by swishing a knife in front and away from you. Furthermore, unless you took a step back and risked the victim getting away, your own legs would restrict the trajectory of the blade.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                        • #13
                          Certainly no swishing involved.
                          It's entirely possible that he put his victims into a position of sexual aquiescence before cutting their throats - either from behind or from an oral sex position.
                          The possibility is always there, as I'm sure you would agree.
                          But this is probably taking the thread away from Stewart's original post.

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                          • #14
                            Sims' Article

                            Originally posted by Nemo View Post
                            Hi Stewart

                            I would be interested in seeing the article by George Sims if you have it, or can point me to where I can find it.
                            It's an awkward shape and size to scan but here it is it three pieces -

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                            SPE

                            Treat me gently I'm a newbie.

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                            • #15
                              Hi Stewart - fantastic, thanks for that

                              By the way, I wasn't suggesting the Ripper used a request for oral sex as a ruse. I was just saying that I always see the statements that the prostitutes of the time would have done this or that - but oral sex is never mentioned.

                              The list of inventors/inventiions may not be of any use for an identification as someone can be regarded as an inventor but never get one of his/her inventions to go into production. A list of editors would be more useful I think.

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