Doctor Thomas Barnardo - Questioned??

[Uncle Jack]

According to the following website, which is a timeline of Barnardo's life, he was questioned by H-Division regarding their suspicions about him being the Ripper. Anyone got anything more detailed about this? According to his alibi, he was at a dinner party on the 29th and this was satisfactory accepted but with the murder of Eddowes occuring at 1:45am on the 30th, it would seem unlikely the dinner party was going on then, so not much of an alibi really. I am not saying in anyway that Barnardo was the Ripper but the alibi doesn't seem air tight to me, which makes you wonder how many more suspects alibis were not all they seemed......

http://www.goldonian.org/barnardo/tb_timeline.htm

Best regards,

Adam

[Mike Covell]

Hi Adam, it's quite an odd statement and even though they have placed a bibliography at the bottom, I cannot understand where they got that from!

It is possible to view the homepage by clicking on the small link at the bottom of the page, this opens another window, which shows the literature to come from a school.

It might be worth contacting them direct.

[Graham]

Hi Adam,

Dr Barnado is by no means a recent Ripper suspect, and I'd hazard a guess that the only reason he was interviewed by the police was (a) because he was a doctor and during the period of the murders there was already a growing legend that the WM was a medical man; and (b) he had interests in the East End that brought him close to the 'lower' classes. Probably many more entirely innocent medical men whose work was East End-based were also questioned - to 'eliminate them from inquiries', to use the police jargon.

The A-Z has the following to say about Barnardo:

1] it was rumoured (by whom?) that he kept a diary in which the dates of the Ripper murders were left blank.

2] he apparently sat in the kitchen of No 32 Flower & Dean St talking to a woman who he later recognised as Elizabeth Stride, whose body he evidently saw in the mortuary (But why should he have seen it? Was he invited to see it? Did he just wander in off the street? Was he somehow more than usually friendly with her? Or what?)

The A-Z cites the biography of Barnado by Gillian Wagner who says he came under 'local suspicion' because of the 'Doctor' theories.

Due consideration to the A-Z for the above.

Mike, that link is to an establishment called Goldings which was founded by Barnardo. Obviously whoever put that timescale together knew a bit about the old boy...

Cheers,

Graham

[aspallek]

The website in question has quite a few inaccuracies:

1. The assertion made multiple times that Tumblety had a collection of uteri. I'm sure I've read there is no evidence for the existence of such a collection.

2. The claim that Mary Kelly was pregnant. She was not.

3. The claim that Stride was abdominally mutilated. She was not.

4. The oft-repeated but erroneous claim that Scotland Yard closed the Ripper case in 1892. The case was never officially "closed."

5. Perhaps not an error but an omission: no mention made of Scotland Yard surveillance of Tumblety in New York. Instead, surveillance is transfered to NYPD detectives.

[Graham]

Andy, you're right. Doubtless Gillian Wagner's information came via a less-than-thorough study of the available literature.

Graham

[perrymason]

Hi all,

I think Grahams mentioning of his rumored direct connection to at least one Ripper victim is what might have spawned some interest in him. Im sure fleeting though, there seems nothing about the man that indicates he is a likely suspect.

But I would be shocked to find that at least some investigators werent avidly exploring possible connections to the women....because those crimes you can potentially solve. Stranger kills stranger is either "catch them in the act", or you can just about forget it.

Best regards all.

[Uncle Jack]

I have obvious doubts about Barnardo as I do with most "celebrity" suspects but I suppose it would be worth looking into more. I have heard it been suggested that the following incidents were one and the same: the questioning of Barnardo on September 30th and the incident with PC Spicer's 'respected doctor' where the doctor was arrested after being found with a prostitute named Rosie and found to have blood on his cuffs. When brought to the station, the leading officers were apparently highly embarrased that Spicer had arrested such a respectable doctor. Say, for arguments sake, the respectable doctor was Barnardo, then why did he have blood on his cuffs...... I know being found with an unfortunate with blood on your cuffs doesn't proof your the Ripper but it does look some what suspicious......... Hmmmm..... lol

Best regards,

Adam

[perrymason]

.... I know being found with an unfortunate with blood on your cuffs doesn't proof your the Ripper but it does look some what suspicious......... Hmmmm..... lol

Best regards,

Adam

Hi Adam,

Blood on the cuffs is what drew the landlady's attention on Batty Street the early morning of the Double Event, and you're right...its not proof...but hmm....

Cheers

[Uncle Jack]

I am deffo going to be looking into Barnardo some more. I am surprised that he isn't in the suspects list seeing as more unlikely ones such as Lewis Carroll and Napier Blanchard are still there! Lol

Best regards,

Adam

[halomanuk]

Barnardo was listed in the suspects section on the pre-crash site because i remember doing a thread about him...

[Limehouse]

What would be so unusual about a doctor being found with blood on his cuffs? Perhaps he had recently delivered a baby or dressed the wounds of someone injured in a street fight? In any case, we are always being told on this site that the killer would, likely as not, have no visible blood on him. (I am not sure I accept this though).

[Pinkerton]

Suspect Type

I don't for a minute believe that Doctor Thomas Barnardo was the Ripper. However I DO find this suspect type--a person whose motive was sort of an act of "Machiavellian altruism"--a fascinating concept. Presumably if one favored Barnardo as a suspect his motive would surely have been to shock society into helping the scores of homeless, abandoned, and abused children of the period. You could lump in other suspects into this group such as someone who might be a member of the Fenians, Socialists/Anarchists, religious person, crusading journalist, or the philanthropists of the day. The attempt to make a change in society by using prostitutes as a sort of sacrificial lamb. To convince people to help the poor and suffering East Enders by showing just how bad their plight was. The "ends justifying the means" and all that...

Not that I actually believe this was the case. I just find it interesting. However I can't think of any modern day examples of this. This is why I think this type of theory is a little "far-fetched".

[Limehouse]

I don't for a minute believe that Doctor Thomas Barnardo was the Ripper. However I DO find this suspect type--a person whose motive was sort of an act of "Machiavellian altruism"--a fascinating concept. Presumably if one favored Barnardo as a suspect his motive would surely have been to shock society into helping the scores of homeless, abandoned, and abused children of the period. You could lump in other suspects into this group such as someone who might be a member of the Fenians, Socialists/Anarchists, religious person, crusading journalist, or the philanthropists of the day. The attempt to make a change in society by using prostitutes as a sort of sacrificial lamb. To convince people to help the poor and suffering East Enders by showing just how bad their plight was. The "ends justifying the means" and all that...

Not that I actually believe this was the case. I just find it interesting. However I can't think of any modern day examples of this. This is why I think this type of theory is a little "far-fetched".

Also into this group you could include W T Stead, who, a year or so before the murders, reported on the scandal of young girls being sold for sex on the streets - often by their mothers. His report opened up a heated debate about vice, prostitution and so on. He died when the Titanic went down.