George Hitchinson: a simple question

[Fisherman]

Makes pretty good sense to me, Richard. Let´s see if that is a majority decision...?

The best, Richard!
Fisherman

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys,
The fact is Abberline at least initially believed Gh, which included the fact that whilst his story may have seemed too good to be true, it surely had to have been possible with the lighting present to have been plausible, otherwise it would have not been taken as seriously as it originaly was.
We were not there folks,neither can we ask people that were, so lets just assume that 'Topping' [ oops Sorry Ben] was being truthful, and go from there....
Regards Richard.

[Fisherman]

Those are lovely paintings, Joel! Thanks for posting them.

I notice that Ben writes that it would be interesting to see the same kind of light under a totally dark sky. But since they are only paintings, Ben, made by a brush and a painters whims, we can of course not read anything of value into them at all. The painter probably could see the whole street in bright light, but for some reason chose to paint them in a darkish tone.

Joking aside, I think we must accept that a lot of information can be reached, studying the paintings made at the time.
In this case, we have a number of canvases that portray a darkish London, especially the one with the few lighting points in it. It is tempting to think that this is a scene that may have resembled what could be seen in Dorset Street.
I think, though, that we must keep (at least) two things in mind before we opt for a painting like this being a good representation of the conditions Hutch met in the street.
Firstly, the painting with St Paul´s cathedral in the background shows very clearly that the London Streets could be very well lit, using only gaslight.
Secondly, we don´t know the condition of these paintings. If they are oil paintings, there will be a coating of varnish on their surfaces, and that varnish turns darker with the years.
Many museums and institutions clean their paintings, restoring the original brightness of the colours, and these painting may well have been cleaned. If not, however, they will be very much darker today than they were when they were painted.
Just a remark.
And my main objection of course stands - we are not able to tell what amount of light was shed over Astrakhan man as Hutch observed him, we are not sure of how many lighting points there were around, we have no way to establish at how slow (for slow it was) pace he walked alongside Kelly, and we have no way to assess how good and keen an observer Hutch was. And the only reasonable verdict that can come out of that, is that we can not say that what he described was something that he could not have seen - and remembered. Doubtless, if he did, it was a remarkable feat. But there you are.

The very best, all!
Fisherman

[GregBaron]

Reading..........

Hi David,

I don't really know of the reading skills of low class East Enders at that time. I guess I'm basing my idea on the Juwes message and Lusk Letter which was far from Shakespearean stuff.... The Ast...description seems quite sophisticated for a laborer.....

I like the mannequin idea also Ben..........that seems quite plausible....

Sincerely,

Greg

[Monty]

Or even tell the truth, God forbid.

[DVV]

Hi Greg,
Do you mean that all low-class people couldn't read? And that they were even unable to lie without help?
Strange enough!

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Doesn't seem far fetched at all, Greg.

It's a very reasonable possibility. Bob Hinton also made the suggestion that a tailor's dummy may have been the inspiration behind Mr. Astrakhan, a view that is perhaps lent credence by the fact that shop-window manequins were introduced in the 1880s.

What seems obvious, to me at least, is that Hutchinson had clearly "borrowed" certain elements from other witness descriptions. Black bags and parcels were doing the rounds well in advance of 12th November, as were sinister Jewish types. The red hanky seems to have been incorporated from Joseph Lawende's description of a man with a red neckerchief.

That, and an paint-by-numbers amalgamation of largely media-generated "scare" details that had built up around the Whitechapel murders from the Leather Apron accounts onwards.

Best regards,
Ben

[GregBaron]

Plagiarism.....

I know this is extremely far fetched you fine people but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. The Astrakhan man description almost seems like something out of a book. Now I doubt old Hutch could even read or read very well but he may have known someone who could. Perhaps he ask a friend to find him a nice description of a Bourgeois gentleman from a Victorian novel. "I'll then go throw this on the gullible police and all will be well" he may have thought. Crazy, huh! Perhaps we should begin searching Google's library scan for old Astrakhan man..........sure would put old Hutch on the hot seat if something similar was found, huh!


Sincerely,

Greg

[DVV]

Hi David

Did James Hadley Chase get published in France?

No Orchids For Miss Blandish is a quite astonishing piece of literature.

Have you read the George Orwell essay on it?

The English phrase is 'If you believe that you'll believe anything'.

And Hutch may quite well have been telling the truth.

Best wishes

(et allez les rosbifs)

Hi Stephen,
of course Chase is published in French, and before me, my father was an aficionado.
I did not read Orwell's essay, but I'd like to. Though my favourites are "Trusted like the fox", "Make the corpse walk", and above all, "Have a change of scene" (which I have also in English).

To get back to Hutchinson, the sentence is: "Believe this you'll believe anything".
I don't!

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

and imagine them in the east end, with fewer lamps.

still, its only paintings, nonetheless, though much more accurate than the impressionist style.

[Ben]

Some lovely images there, Joel. Thanks for posting them!

Greg's point's a goodun - imagine a similar scene under a dark night sky and in poor weather.

Cheers,
Ben

[GregBaron]

Paintings

Great paintings Joel, much thanks.......

I would suggest at least 2 of these are of a dusk scene....check the sky....one has a nice moon too...

Imagine a pitch black night sky.....I think things would get pretty dark except maybe withing 10-20 feet of a lamp...

If it was raining on the night in question that would mean no stars no moon and perhaps more darkness than usual.........

Sincerely,

Greg

[joelhall]

note how dim the victorian lamp in the foreground appears, compared to the others.

[joelhall]

the upper left one, 'piccadilly at night' by john grimshaw, is my favourite

[halomanuk]

They are indeed lovely paintings - especially the 'St Paul's Cathedral' work...