Who did kill Nichols and Kelly ?

[Rainbow]

A thread to discuss the possibility of one of those 4 men to be Jack the Ripper!


Rainbow°

[John Wheat]

WH Bury.

[Scott Nelson]

other - Jacob Issenschmid killed Chapman and Nichols according to Lynn Cates.

[Phil Carter]

other - Jacob Issenschmid killed Chapman and Nichols according to Lynn Cates.

Id go for Nichols/Issenschmid. Fair chance.

Phil

[Rainbow]

other - Jacob Issenschmid killed Chapman and Nichols according to Lynn Cates.

Since the police in 1888, saw the remarkable similarities between Chapman's and Eddowes' murders and with them occurring within such a short span of time, its no wonder that the police believed that the same killer was at work...and with Isenschmid tucked away at the time, any serious consideration as to his involvement with the Chapman murder, based on the evaluation of the Eddowes' murder, would be effectively diminished.


Rainbow°

[lynn cates]

not similar

Hello Rainbow. On the other hand, the medicos were convinced that Kate was by another hand.

Hence JI still makes a perfectly good suspect.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

A thread to discuss the possibility of one of those 4 men to be Jack the Ripper!


Rainbow°

Who killed Nichols and Kelly? 2 different unknown men.

[Harry D]

Who killed Nichols and Kelly? 2 different unknown men.

Yeaaah... No.

The odds of two killers with the same propensity for mutilation and overkill operating in a district that size? I honestly don't care if the doctors found differences between murders. Why should each murder be as identical as the last? Why wouldn't there be escalation based on the killer's mindset and working conditions? And ironically, if Kelly was a copycat murder, the killer did a terrible job of it.

[Michael W Richards]

Yeaaah... No.

The odds of two killers with the same propensity for mutilation and overkill operating in a district that size? I honestly don't care if the doctors found differences between murders. Why should each murder be as identical as the last? Why wouldn't there be escalation based on the killer's mindset and working conditions? And ironically, if Kelly was a copycat murder, the killer did a terrible job of it.

Sorry....did I miss something....have these murders finally been connected by anyone to each other, to A killer, or any other murder?

They are historically Unsolved and Unconnected, linked only by opinion.

[Harry D]

Sorry....did I miss something....have these murders finally been connected by anyone to each other, to A killer, or any other murder?

They are historically Unsolved and Unconnected, linked only by opinion.

They are linked by geographical profiling, victim profiling and a unique MO/post-mortem signature.

[Michael W Richards]

They are linked by geographical profiling, victim profiling and a unique MO/post-mortem signature.

The only relevant geographical data is the radius created by the kill sites, only 2 victims were known to be soliciting when attacked and the ages range from late 40's streewalkers to mid twenty sleepers, and the PM signature is completely absent in 1 of the Five murders, without any evidence that the murder was abbreviated in any way. Lets just set aside the varied murder weapons and the varied skill and abilities, shall we?

As I said, opinions. And as illustrated above, most based on invalid assumptive data.

[Harry D]

The only relevant geographical data is the radius created by the kill sites, only 2 victims were known to be soliciting when attacked and the ages range from late 40's streewalkers to mid twenty sleepers, and the PM signature is completely absent in 1 of the Five murders, without any evidence that the murder was abbreviated in any way. Lets just set aside the varied murder weapons and the varied skill and abilities, shall we?

As I said, opinions. And as illustrated above, most based on invalid assumptive data.

Peter Sutcliffe's victims ranged from 16 to 47 years old. Again, as with the mutilations, you seem to think that each murder has to be identical. The fact is that none of the five murders were like-for-like, including Nichols & Chapman. That doesn't mean there were five different killers.

I've already pointed out that "skill level" can be affected by situational variables. Next.

[Abby Normal]

They are linked by geographical profiling, victim profiling and a unique MO/post-mortem signature.

and consensus, not only by police at the time but modern experts.

so that's four links!!

[Michael W Richards]

Peter Sutcliffe's victims ranged from 16 to 47 years old. Again, as with the mutilations, you seem to think that each murder has to be identical. The fact is that none of the five murders were like-for-like, including Nichols & Chapman. That doesn't mean there were five different killers.

I've already pointed out that "skill level" can be affected by situational variables. Next.

I personally think that reviewing modern data gleaned by interviewing identified and tried modern serial killers is irrelevant when assessing Unsolved murders in 1888 in Londons East End. Unless of course you can be sure you are looking at serial crimes. I see 2, Polly and Annie, almost identical in every relevant aspect, as being within a series, because its so obvious that they were. But folks like you and others want to accept the rest into that fold anyway, without any data but your opinions as to why each successive murder within the Canonical Group deviates from that established pattern.

Modern serial killers kill because they are compelled to do so. That's the motive. Are you telling me that you cannot conceive of any other reasons why some of these women might be killed? You have 2 broken relationships just before the murders, you have a love triangle, you have a victim who claimed she was about to rat someone out for the crimes, you have the fact that Unfortunates were paid to spy on anarchist factions throughout the East End, and you have a commission going on that is investigating the activities of Members of Parliament with respect to possible collusion with self rule activists who were in the process of plotting a political assassination during that same Fall. You have a failed assassination plot just one year earlier, and bombings and killings over the years preceding these events. And you have a senior investigator postulating in writing that Fenians might be responsible for the murders, and Balfours assassination plot?

Skill level doesn't change, you have skills or you don't. The degree in which they are demonstrated can change, but you need external demands to make that argument. You don't have data for that in Strides case, you don't have data for that in Eddowes case, and you don't have that data in Marys case. Which brings up a question.....if this man was skilled and wasn't able to show that in any murder after Annies, then why don't we see that skill in a closed room in a quiet court...with privacy, time and a victim, surely a skilled knifesman would be clearly evident there. It isn't, in fact Marys murder may have been the most crudely committed of them all.

Im sorry, an ostrich doesn't live here.

[Michael W Richards]

and consensus, not only by police at the time but modern experts.

so that's four links!!

Consensus on an opinion is worthless as a supposedly viable premise.