5 & 5 Only?

[spyglass]

I love when people work on a theory when they've already decided the conclusion they'll reach.

But when every other angle has been covered, and there is only one avenue left to go down.
mind you, it will be complete speculation with not one ounce of documented proof to back it it up.

[Henry Flower]

I'm working on a theory about this that will conclude that there never was a Kelly murder.

Extremely thorough suicide?

[spyglass]

Extremely thorough suicide?

Not quite that mundane I'm afraid.

[Joshua Rogan]

Extremely thorough suicide?

Talking of which, I came across this snippet today;

"The generally accepted theory is that the whole series of murders are the work of one, but a medical opinion is that the knife wounds on the woman found in August in the George yard may after all have been self inflicted."

[Fisherman]

Talking of which, I came across this snippet today;

"The generally accepted theory is that the whole series of murders are the work of one, but a medical opinion is that the knife wounds on the woman found in August in the George yard may after all have been self inflicted."

Truly gruesome. What stamina!

[Henry Flower]

Truly gruesome. What stamina!

Wow. Does that put Tabram in the frame for ALL the murders?

[Fisherman]

Wow. Does that put Tabram in the frame for ALL the murders?

Well, Killeen said she was dead, but let´s face it; he was young and inexperienced and victorian doctors never went beyond guesswork anyway ...

You may be onto something, I believe.

[Pierre]

The Ripper killed in the small hours when the streets were largely deserted of human and vehicular traffic. As a consequence it was the older and less desirable women who were still wandering the streets in search of their doss money. Hence the killer was not specifically targeting older women, he was attacking those who became victims of opportunity. Peter Sutcliffe's victims encompassed a broad age range, not least because he was prepared to target just about any woman when the opportunity presented itself. My guess is that the Whitechapel Murderer was no different.

Hi Garry,

You postulate that it is:

X late > Y older victims

Problem: You have no data showing how many percent of all women were older or younger.

I do not think you are right. I think the age group was a choice.

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Pierre;397818]

Hi Steve,

There are differences between the MO for the victims who were found killed outdoors and those (if we hypothesize Kelly, Whitehall, Jackson and Pinchin St) who were not found killed indoors.

Let´s call the first group of victims VO and the second group of victims VI.

So what differences do we think we can postulate?

VO - older victims / VI - younger victims

VO - weaker victims? / VI - stronger victims?

(An hypothetical question based on age differences)

VO - quickly found / VI - found after a longer time period

VO - higher risk profile / VI - lower risk profile?

but

VO - one risk taken / VI - more than one risk taken when distributing body parts

VO - killed in the East End and the City / VI - also killed in the West End (drawing this from the distribution)

VO - less heavy work / VI - heavier work with mutilations and carrying body parts

VO - short murder and mutilation time periods / VI - longer murder and mutilation time periods

VO- murders start in August 1888 / VI - murders start in July/August 1888

VO - murders end in November 1888 / VI - murders end in September 1889

Conclusion: We can construct a set of hypotheses saying it was the same killer if we want to.

This set of hypotheses (SH) could look like this:

SH for the same killer =

1. The younger victims were stronger and harder to kill outdoors than the older victims.
2. The older victims could not be dismembered since they were killed outdoors.
3. West End was partly the place for killing the younger victims.
4. East End (and the City) was the place for killing the older victims.
5. The time period is the same - August 1888 to September 1889 - and therefore we can not use a perspective where the Whitechapel murders was the "most typical" set or murders.
6. The risk profile is high for all the cases where bodies and body parts were distributed outdoors.
7. The VO murders are external in their character: killed outside, mutilated outside, but found outside.
8. The VI murders are both internal and external: killed inside, mutilated inside, found outside.
9. The reason for the difference in external/internal elements has partly to do with age.
10. This means that the killer could not do anything he wanted to do anywhere.
11. Kelly is the most interesting case: It is totally internal. Killed inside, mutilated inside, found inside.
12. There must be a very specific motive for this particular change in MO.

Conclusion: The finding of bodies and body parts should be studied and analyzed from a risk perspective.

The questions we can ask are:

A) How is risk construced for every case?
B) What are the similarities and differences?
C) Is it possible to construct one single risk profile for all the cases here discussed?
D) What is the risk profile in the case of Kelly compared to the other cases?
E) If it is different, what are the hypothetical explanations?

Regards, Pierre

Any thoughts from you, Steve?

[Pierre]

Hi,

I think he killed only four, although Stride is possibly not one of his.
Kelly in my mind now was not a Ripper murder but something completely different.
I'm working on a theory about this that will conclude that there never was a Kelly murder.

Keep tuned.

Regards.

Hi Spyglass,

I think that would be a mistake.

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

Not quite that mundane I'm afraid.

You would be postulating that "Kelly" was not "Kelly".

[John Wheat]

Hi,

I think he killed only four, although Stride is possibly not one of his.
Kelly in my mind now was not a Ripper murder but something completely different.
I'm working on a theory about this that will conclude that there never was a Kelly murder.

Keep tuned.

Regards.

Firstly the theory you're working on sounds like it will be ludicrous. Secondly I hope it isn't going to take ages for you to reveal your theory.

[Henry Flower]

Firstly the theory you're working on sounds like it will be ludicrous. Secondly I hope it isn't going to take ages for you to reveal your theory.

John I love it! A variation on the classic joke: two old ladies at a restaurant, one says, "the food here is so awful" and the other replies "I know, terrible - and such small portions!"

[The Grave Maurice]

To get back to your question, Madame, I've read most of the books about JTR but I can't recall one that claims all of the victims weren't prostitutes.

[DJA]

Now that's what I'd call off topic