the freemasons

[joelhall]

exactly why do people suspect any masonic link with the killings whilst showing, at best, a poor knowledge of freemasonry?

joel

[Jdombrowski89]

Joel,

Here are some reasons as to why some people suspect the Freemasons are involved in the Ripper Killings, which are in fact, false.

1. Jack The Ripper: The Final Solution? Not really.
-- Basically I think you should lead your own assumptions as to why or why not the Freemasons were involved by reading a well written Essay here:

http://www.casebook.org/suspects/knight.html

In other points the Masonic Conspiracy, if anything, was a figment created by author Stephen Knight in 1973. As I've said before, all that is needed to read about the Final Solution could be accessed in the link provided sentences before. Basically it's like this: I think it's an oral known fact that many people love a good theory. The JFK Assassination. The Conspiracy of the American Government behind 9/11. and so on, and so on. It's simple. The minute people hear the words "Royal Conspiracy" it spreads like wild fire. But unfortunately it's the sort of conspiracy that in which many people have not done their "Homework" and just looked at the facts of this case.

2. Sir William Gull did it! Not.
-- Many people have suggested that since Gull was a doctor, and a heirarchy(sp?) level of importance to the Royal Family, that it MUST have been a conspiracy and nothing less. Well alright but there's a few holes of Gull being the Ripper and suggesting that someone "drove him" to the scenes of the crime,etc. Gull had suffered a severe stroke (Which would follow him for the rest of his life leading to his death in 1890) in which left him paralysed on one side of his body (If I'm correct the right side, not really sure). kind of hard to get a hold of someone and kill them with only 50 percentage of your motor skills working. and most of all the notion that Gull worked with someone who took him to the crime scenes is ridiculous on a level higher than I can count. All of the witnesses living around the murder scenes did not recall hearing any abstract noises. Now if you've ever heard the sound of a carriage going down a cobblestoned road, it isn't quite. And most of all The Ripper, whoever he was, didn't want to surely attract any attention at all. So why go out in public and in a horse and carriage where your level of getting caught is raised? doesn't make any sense to me. The Ripper was also someone who did his job and left the scene of the crime fast. A feeble old man like Gull is not a viable candidate for this notion.

3. The Freemasons protected the Ripper!Um no.
-- Contrary to what some people believe, the Freemasons do have a series of "guidelines" that must be followed to be part of the brotherhood. And excommunication does include murder,rape, and other excessive acts of violence. Now of course not all of these are going to be followed. Let's look at the "moral laws" that we follow on a daily basis. Don't kill, steal, commit adultery,etc. Plus I don't know but it seems to me that it wouldn't make sense to try to protect the most infamous killer of all time, AND keep it a secret. the Masonic theory itself falls apart in crumbles mainly because there is NO concrete evidence to suggest it. None.

Those are just some main points of what I think but in the end that essay sums up the reasons possibly it isn't the right theory. Overall I just think that people love mystery and conspiracy and if one way is to point it at the freemasons, then people will do anything possible.

[anna]

I agree with all of that post,except for a part of point 3.
Yes,there are guidelines...for the brothers up to a certain level of achievement in the craft.
As to those at the very top?..Hmmmmm.No.
Things can happen,and they can be covered up.
Part of what they are about,protecting each other to the limit from trouble.
They are a secret society,that isn't secret....except if you want to know something.
Let's answer another part of Joel's question.The British public,and their perceptions of Freemasonry.Unless for some reason the person in the street needs to know more about the Brotherhood.You can't blame 'em for not seeing much past,secret society with Royals at the top,wealth & power and and a part of their initiation ceremony that has become the focus of many a tv gag over the years.
The sort of stuff that make the public suspect that something dodgy maybe lurking within their ranks.

[anna]

P.S.If I am put into the Tower for my posts at any time during this thread,
I'd just like to say....whopeeeee!!!!!!
At a formal occassion there,I got chatting to the Dean's daughter,who asked me my interests.Amongst my list was JTR,at which point she called for the Beefeaters!!!!.....a great many of them love JTR.Brilliant!!!!!!!

[joelhall]

that was what i was getting at anna thanks. the common preconceived notions (its a secret society, etc) seem to fuel the theories, though it seems little study has gone into actually laying to rest these old notions, especially as these murders go against the whole ideal of freemasonry.

in fact if you do want to know anything about freemasonry, feel free to ask a member. youll see theres not much they wont answer about it.

its not a secret society, merely a society with a couple of secrets. and these crimes certainly dont fit with masonry. its not just a club for the rich, powerful and mysterious.

just seems if people suspect 'secrecy' of any body of people it automatically becomes something macabre and conspiratorial.

joel

[anna]

Hi Joel,
I think the Freemasons are selective in what they wish you to know,so they may answer your questions,but only as far as they are comfortable with!
I don't agree with you that they are not a secret society,they just don't like to be known as such,the reason being,because it might encourage others to delve a little further than they want them to.
If this is such an open society,and it's members have nothing to hide.You try getting information on who is amongst their ranks!!!!!The headquarters of UGLE(United Grand Lodge of England)was in Great Queen Street,near Covent Garden.Most of the brothers that were of the lower ranks would arrive carrying their box's of regalia,hurrying towards their meetings like little worker ants..those who did not want to be seen arrived via a corridor that was on the first floor of the Connaught Rooms(a resteraunt)that had a door that led into their headquarters,that they could sip through without beeing seen.
Freemasonry is made up of different levels of achievement,and they have "arches"..these are difficult to reach,as they take a lot of work in the craft to achieve,and most fall by the wayside along the journey towards them.
Very,very few...mostly Royals and the very select amongst their number
achieve going beyond the arch,because it takes a lot of dedication,and many of the brothers drop out along the way.Even less reach double figures...
and that's where the fun really begins!!!!

[anna]

Actually,I can see we are just coming from different angles. You,quite rightly from the traditional angle of what the organisation is about.
And I am from the conspiricy angle..you see,we have spoken on the boards about a cover up starting as far back as Annie Chapman.To do this,top policemen and polititians would have had to have been involved,and many of these are masons...but it would have had to have been sombody way above the arch,that would have had the authority to do so,and for the brothers to
feel duty bound to protect.
You are right,in that it is not a club,it is a very deep,well thought out organisation of men who's sole interest is to protect their honour,their higher archy and to climb whatever social or business rank they can through other brothers.
I have an excellent book on the subject,pm me if you would like the title and author,it's a good informative read.

[Dan Norder]

I think it's an oral known fact that many people love a good theory.

Perhaps it's anal, but many people love bad theories more than good ones.

[joelhall]

Hi Joel,
I think the Freemasons are selective in what they wish you to know,so they may answer your questions,but only as far as they are comfortable with!
I don't agree with you that they are not a secret society,they just don't like to be known as such,the reason being,because it might encourage others to delve a little further than they want them to.
If this is such an open society,and it's members have nothing to hide.You try getting information on who is amongst their ranks!!!!!

not very difficult... just ask them 'are you a mason?'

and no theyre not a secret society. being a member is not anymore secret than the fact that they exist. at one time, as is still the case in certain places, they did encourage members not to advertise their membership, though they did not lie about it.

its no secret that the duke of kent is grand master at ugle, or nigel brown is grand secretary, and so on..

You are right,in that it is not a club,it is a very deep,well thought out organisation of men who's sole interest is to protect their honour,their higher archy and to climb whatever social or business rank they can through other brothers.

again i have to quibble with this, as unfounded common knowledge. its aims and principles and most of the rules are available to anyone with an interest. only meetings are private and the traditions (like methods of recognition) are secret.

[anna]

Oh boy,bet they'd love you for a PR person.

[anna]

Sorry Joel,
That was a bit of an abrupt sort of post,my mind was on another thread.
Thank you for an interesting discussion on a topic I had almost fergotten about,because of it's reputation and dismissal as to it's relevance to JTR on this site.
Your posts have shown me a different viewpoint on the subject,and have encouraged me to have another read of my book,when I locate it.!!!!!
Good thread.
Anna.

[joelhall]

no probs anna, thanks for the posts

joel
oh and let me know what the book is

cheers

[nugnug]

jack the mason

masonic ritchell killing if it does hapen is only meant to be for masons who betray the order to my knoledge none of the victms were masons