How much do we know?

[YankeeSergeant]

How much do we know about Folgema? I have entertained a thoery for a few years that a sailor may have committed the murders. If Folgema's ship movements could be discovered we could look for times his ship was docked in London. If the ship was docked in London on the days in question and Folgema was aboard at those times it would bring us a lot closer to the truth one way or another.

[Jon-Erik]

The Fogelma story originated with an article in the Empire News of 23 October 1923. There's apparently not a whole lot to follow up on since there's no physical description of the sailor in question. The author of the article doesn't even identify himself. An intriguing theory though.

[joelhall]

as far as i know this story was a bit of elaborated fiction by an empire news journalist.

[The Good Michael]

The things I don't like about the sailor theories, and there are many of them, are the convenient way theorists can latch onto many, many ships and many nationalities, and the ability, also by theorists, to place anyone on any ship, knowing full well that crew manifestos are nearly impossible to come by.

Many of us believe the murderer was from the area, and from just a small part of the area that he seems to be so familiar with. Why would a sailor, possibly with little English, stray from the docks and wharves and their own brands of doxies and drinking establishments? Any number of arguments can be put forth to answer my last, rhetorical question, but how many realistic ones?

I daresay each ship probably had one or two shady characters (at the very least) who were talked about and joked about as being the Ripperous type, but which of those several thousand was the killer. I wonder how many stories about suspects on ships never made it into the papers. That must be in the thousands as well.

Cheers,

Mike

[YankeeSergeant]

Sailors

Mike: It was a theory and I'm not tied into it. I know far too little to committ to one theory though I have some ideas. I guess the murderer had a good knowledge of the area and that implies, as you say, someone who lived there. Cheers to you as well. Neil

[Financeman]

Well let me say this. In another post I putforeward a thought that the 88 murders where JTR and that the 89 where a copy cat based on freuqency. Why did they stop so suddenly? well JTR either;
Died, got caught, got killed (the UK was a war in India at the time)
or moved. But if he was a sailor or even an officer he would not be in port 12 months to 2 years, not that long, unless he quit until he got another ship.
as for the copy cat, what better way for a pimp to cover up the murder or disloyal prostitute by masking it as a ripper murder?

[rey]

Fogelma is innocent

Hi!

There was another thread about this topic that ended in 2005 that i will refer to: http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4922/8084.html

Some background info: http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...morley/63.html


Lets have a look at Fogelmas sweetheart. She bears the name Storsjan, which means "the great lake" in norwegian. I think Helge Samulsson wrote about that earlier.

There are two lakes in Norway called Storsjøen, and one in Sweden (spelled Storsjön). To me, as a swede, that choice of name seems very strange, but okey, i can accept that.


But whats even stranger, and im surprised that is hasent been noticed before (or has it?), is that the american preists last name is Miosen. Mjøsen (somthimes spelled Mjøsa) is the name of Norways greatest lake...

So in this saga we have one norwegian sailor and two persons named after norwegian lakes, one of whom is an american priest in the Nestorian church in New York!

I think we should consider erasing poor Fogelma from the list of suspects.

Forgive my poor English
/Rey

[YankeeSergeant]

Packet ships

Financeman; He wouldn't be in port if he were on the equivelent of an ocean-going freighter or a naval vessel but what about a packet ship going across the channel or up and down the English coast? It wasn't uncommon for sailors then to seek better berths but if it was a sailor, it would likely be one wjho was employed on a ship making scheduled trips that would put them inport for the weekends on a fairl;y frequent basis say once or twice a month. Again, let me reiterate this is a theory and I'm putting it out there as I did in the initial post to stimulate discussion. HAppy holidays all!

[Grim]

Folgelma was a hoax and never existed to begin with!

[Phil Carter]

Hi

Went into the link for all this and saw straight away the problem with the name.
FOLGELMA isn'r a real name

A REAL norwegian Name that DOES fit the English sound is FUGLEMAS

(pronounced.. foolemah..the g is silent, the s is silent, and depending on which dialect it is spoken in, the u sounds like a double o, as in "fool".

There are many people in Norway today with this last name.

best wishes

Phil

[Diddles]

"Fuglemas" as in Bird noise?
I've never heard of anybody with that name, and according to statistics nobody with that name exist in Norway..

But it's puzzling what Norwegian name Fogelma was supposed to be, hoax or not..
Folgerø, Follestad or something similar..

[Phil Carter]

Hello Diddles,

I thought of Følgelma as well, with variations, but got nowhere with that one either!

The answer may lie in the birth records in Arendal. Sadly, although I live in Sandefjord, my trips along the coast have been limited in recent years.
I do know that the local studies group down that way were preparing a book on local genealogy a few years ago, but the last time I asked, in 2002, it was still in the preparation stages. I have heard nothing since.
Perhaps you know of any further update?
Please pm or email me if you do find out anything, I would be most obliged.

best wishes

Phil

[janroren]

Hi

Went into the link for all this and saw straight away the problem with the name.
FOLGELMA isn'r a real name

A REAL norwegian Name that DOES fit the English sound is FUGLEMAS

(pronounced.. foolemah..the g is silent, the s is silent, and depending on which dialect it is spoken in, the u sounds like a double o, as in "fool".

There are many people in Norway today with this last name.

best wishes

Phil

Another possibility is the spelling FUGLEMO.A very common norwegian sirname.No one in norway is as far as I know called FOGELMA!

[GregBaron]

Popeye the Sailor Man...

Sorry to dredge this thread up from the catacombs fine friends but I’ve found the boards exceedingly boring of late……..Ah anyway, I don’t believe in the viability of this unspell-able Norwegian nor in clever Trevor’s German sailor but, with the specific sighting of Lawende in mind, and with what we know of the degradation of Grainger and Sadler, how feasible is the general idea of a sailor Jtr?

It seems to me escape to the wharfs may be easier than escape to a bolt hole in Whitechapel. Knives and bloody guts may also be easier to hide on a foul sailing vessel as well…It also appears, assuming somewhat regular stops, that a sailor could become pretty familiar with Whitechapel, especially since drinking and whoring was probably a relatively common pastime among these manly mariners……. Now admittedly, I know little of 19th century sailors and their schedules, habits and accoutrements but I expect others out here know much more..

As I noticed earlier in the thread, research into this area apparently leads into a vast sea of nothingness and perhaps why, with the exception of Trevor, it gets short shrift. Apologies to any others who may have travelled this path….

With that said, it’s hard to deny that 124 years of lockdown in the Parish have yielded much…………….

Ideas, opinions anyone?


Greg

[Ayailla]

Could the name have possibly been Fogelman? A quick search for Fogelma on google brought up the Casebook page on him, this thread, and then nothing but Fogelman.

http://www.houseofnames.com/fogelman-family-crest