Where does Joseph Fleming fit into the equation?

[Ben]

I accept your point regarding Kelly's potential former beau's, Mike, but I just feel that such an extreme of height and weight as that proposed of Fleming would have been considerably alien to her experience, or anyone's experience for that matter. It would therefore have been an obvious talking point whenever she discussed him. It's quite clear that Kelly wasn't too bothered about the usual custom of being deliberately scant on details of ex-boyfriend in order to protect the feelings of the current partner. She even told Barnett that she was "fond" of this other Joe.

I believe and error from 67 inches to 6 ft 7 in is improbable though possible and I leave it at that.

Fair enough, Mike. I would argue the reverse, and if it were just you and I debating, I'd cheerfully "leave it at that". Unfortunately, there are those with an absolute fixation with outlasting people in internet message board discussions, and who become ferocious when they are denied the opportunity to shout other people down.

[Lechmere]

I think that may be a habit with unusually tall and very skinny people... Don't mention the war - oh I did.

[DVV]

Lost amongst rantings about Jennifer Lopez, posted this morning by Richard and worth a thought :

I have to say that any known person that was involved intimately with a victim, that is known to have been detained under the mental health act, has to be a suspect, and a good one to boot.

[Ben]

Gotta love a cyber stalker.

[Debra A]

Hi all,
Just to set he record straight, because if I had a pound...
There is no doubt the entry says 6ft 7 in. That is what was written officially in the asylum records for Fleming.
It was just my own personal thought that it sounded a bit too tall for the time and place, that's all. That thought was also based on other things like the fact Fleming owned boots, shirts, socks, trousers and a coat in his inventory of belongings-a full wardrobe including socks. An exceptionally tall man of 6ft 7 would have needed very large clothing and boots, I would expect his shoe size to be well outside the normal range of footwear and clothing sizes available. Wouldn't Fleming have had to pay a large amount of money to have all those things made especially for him? Would a dock labourer who's mental health issues were blamed on drinking have he resources to have all that clothing made to fit him?

I mentioned the height in inches being copied over as feet and inches purely as a suggestion of how a mistake might happen.I had been looking at records of soldiers service at the time and noted that heights were often recorded in inches as well as feet and inches. I also noted some mistakes in the records,one man being clearly recorded as being something like 55 feet tall.
It was merely a suggestion that his height may have been initially recorded in inches and then copied into the records in feet and inches format. That's all.

[DVV]

Hi Debs,

Your personal thoughts seem reasonable enough.
Fleming's wardrobe is certainly another clue.
As for those who affected to discard the possibility of a mistake, they have a 55ft case to meditate.

Many thanks

[Lechmere]

Debs
the 55 foot case - how was it written and was it a military record?

Some poor people were very tall and requiring big clothes and shoes would have been a fact of life. It would not have caused them to shrink.

[DVV]

the 55 foot case - how was it written and was it a military record?

Don't forget to ask if it has been corrected.

[Fisherman]

Ben:

Unfortunately, there are those with an absolute fixation with outlasting people in internet message board discussions...

Would that be the kind of person who claims he is " in the mood for a stamina war"? The type of person who says he is "up for a real entrenched marathon posting session for the next few months or so"?

Just wondering here, Ben.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Wickerman]

There is one point on which Ed Lechmere is a bit more clever than his accomplices : undoubtedly, if Fleming looked like Peter Crouch, it would have leaked out.

Unfortunately, he doesn't realise (or doesn't want to) that such an uncommon height and thinness would have also prompted some comments on behalf of the medical staff - .....

And you would have heard this would you?

Where would they write these comments down, Facebook, Twitter?

Or is it just possible that the staff were more Worldly than you give them credit for?

I must confess, I have no idea what the medical staff talked about in the corridors, and I don't expect to ever find out either.

[Wickerman]

.... That thought was also based on other things like the fact Fleming owned boots, shirts, socks, trousers and a coat in his inventory of belongings-a full wardrobe including socks. An exceptionally tall man of 6ft 7 would have needed very large clothing and boots, I would expect his shoe size to be well outside the normal range of footwear and clothing sizes available.

I'd be cautious with that thought Debs, you'll only encourage them.

Peter Crouch is 6' 7" but only wears a size 12 shoe, not an exceptional case in my opinion.

In the 19th century they "made-do", special width/height clothing was simply not readily available for a lowly East-ender, and when necessary they made their own clothing.

[DVV]

Lechmere seems to acknowledge 55ft is a bit too tall... Fish ignores Debs post... Jon tweets...

It smacks the end for Giraffe-Joe.

[Debra A]

Move over James Bradshaw

Hull Daily Mail (Hull, England), Friday, September 18, 1891

[Wickerman]

I guess it only goes to show the Yorkshire Press need to get out more

[Abby Normal]

Debs
the 55 foot case - how was it written and was it a military record?

Some poor people were very tall and requiring big clothes and shoes would have been a fact of life. It would not have caused them to shrink.

No but it may have caused them to die.


If he was that tall and skinny, there would more than likely some mention of It by somebody-one of the witnesses or at least in his medical records. Chances are if that's MKs Fleming then the height as written is a mistake. If its not a mistake then there is no way he is the ripper.