Where does Joseph Fleming fit into the equation?

[Fisherman]

It's a bit like saying that most trains arrive on time, Fish.

Actually, most trains do NOT arrive on time. They allow themselves a five or ten minute gap, and then claim that was in time.

If trains had almost always arrived on exact time, then yes, itīs a useful comparison - to an extent. My feeling is that arriving on time is less frequent than trained staff people getting heights correct. But that does not matter - the salient point is that whatever comparison you may offer where something almost always happens the way it is supposed to is fine by me.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Keep us posted, Fish, I'm not tired yet.

For the record, I observe that :

no comment on his height nor thinness from the staff

not a word from Barnett

nothing from Venturney

nothing from Mrs McCarthy and Co.

And a newspaper article about a 6'6 little big man.

... who was for a day pushed as tallest in England by you-know-who.

That is until evidence was uncovered to show how ridicuous and useless that was. Now he is suddenly a "little big man". Amazing.

All the best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Balderdash.

Ah! Casebook!

How nice to see the polite exchanges of academic discussion are not yet dead. That reasoned argument and detailed refutations still are the bedrock of our discussions.

Phil

Bof... that's Fisherman's style.

Balderdash ?

That is the very matter of his theories. Like the Scavenger, for example. And many more.

[DVV]

Fleming used an alias already with James Evans. Seems like he had the habit of pretending he was someone else. Maybe he used the alias George Hutchinson at one time.

Hi Abby,

I certainly agree.
But after hundreds posts focused on the height, if we dare to speculate on this subject, we'll be showered with posts about Toppy's signature.

They sure fear Flemtchinson to prevent any discussion on the subject.

Cheers

[DVV]

Fisherman says that the height record may be mistaken, but he thinks it is wisest to opt for it being correct, since the overwhelming majority of height recordings are.
Fisherman[/B]

It's a bit like saying that most trains arrive on time, Fish.

And I think it is wisest to use good common sense, to remember how extraordinarily tall 6'7 would have been, how extraordinarily thin he would have been, to notice the complete lack of any mention of Fleming-the-Giant, etc etc.

6'7 ?
I bet his coffin isn't even that long.

Cheers

[DVV]

Luckily, Dave had you to tell him in a better brought up manner that his idea that the medics must have commented on Evans/Flemings height is just a waste of time.
Myself, I have said the same thing a thousand times, and so I am running out of useful synonyms. Wait til he posts the same stuff once more, Phil..!

All the best,
Fisherman

Keep us posted, Fish, I'm not tired yet.

For the record, I observe that :

no comment on his height nor thinness from the staff

not a word from Barnett

nothing from Venturney

nothing from Mrs McCarthy and Co.

And a newspaper article about a 6'6 little big man.

[Fisherman]

David:

... it's impossible to have a discussion on Fleming's candidacy. Whatever you may say, the height is brought back as if it was the gospel truth...

No once again. I am not saying that it is the gospel truth. I am saying that it may be right and it may be wrong, but the records speak for it being right.

Shall I say it once more? Or can we reach an understanding here? Fisherman says that the height record may be mistaken, but he thinks it is wisest to opt for it being correct, since the overwhelming majority of height recordings are.

Once more? No?

The next time you say that I am stating that Fleming/Evans must have been 6 ft 7 you will be lying. I advice against it. I am saying that I find it the better guess that it is correct.

The best,
Fisherman

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

As there was no "Jack the Ripper", this mythical personage could not have been Joseph Fleming or, whilst we're at it, any other suspect you might care to name.

Regards,

Simon

[Fisherman]

Hi fish, GM, DVV

Fleming used an alias already with James Evans. Seems like he had the habit of pretending he was someone else. Maybe he used the alias George Hutchinson at one time.


But of course fish you know all about people using aliases for nefarious reasons. ; )

True enough! And Iīm one up here, since I have proof that my guy DID use a false name. One up on Toppy, I mean - not on Evans/Fleming.

All the best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Balderdash.

Ah! Casebook!

How nice to see the polite exchanges of academic discussion are not yet dead. That reasoned argument and detailed refutations still are the bedrock of our discussions.

Phil

You see, Phil, it's impossible to have a discussion on Fleming's candidacy. Whatever you may say, the height is brought back as if it was the gospel truth, and the unique topic.
Brought by by whom ?
By who we know.

It's just as if you were posting in a Cross-Lechmere thread to hammer daily the same objection : "Cross could have easily walked away to avoid Paul, so he is not the Ripper".

That would be boring, don't you think ?

But that is just the game they are playing here.

[Fisherman]

Balderdash.

Ah! Casebook!

How nice to see the polite exchanges of academic discussion are not yet dead. That reasoned argument and detailed refutations still are the bedrock of our discussions.

Phil

Luckily, Dave had you to tell him in a better brought up manner that his idea that the medics must have commented on Evans/Flemings height is just a waste of time.
Myself, I have said the same thing a thousand times, and so I am running out of useful synonyms. Wait til he posts the same stuff once more, Phil..!

All the best,
Fisherman

[Abby Normal]

Mmm - he suggested it, and then he took a look at how it tallied with the facts. And guess where he ended up?

I would put it to you that any person interested in the case and with an average or over average gift for creating different scenarios would sooner or later in the process of taking in the Ripper facts ask himself if Hutchinson and Fleming were interconnected.
Likewise, anybody who did do this, and who pursued the case factwise, would also arrive at the inevitable conclusion that they were not one and the same.

We are not equivalent with our initial mistakes, David - we are the sum of what weīve managed to learn from them. Some learn more, some less. Thatīs the way of life.

The best,
Fisherman

Hi fish, GM, DVV

Fleming used an alias already with James Evans. Seems like he had the habit of pretending he was someone else. Maybe he used the alias George Hutchinson at one time.


But of course fish you know all about people using aliases for nefarious reasons. ; )

[Phil H]

Balderdash.

Ah! Casebook!

How nice to see the polite exchanges of academic discussion are not yet dead. That reasoned argument and detailed refutations still are the bedrock of our discussions.

Phil

[Fisherman]

David:

Wishful thinking, Fish ?

Yup. Wishful thinking/wet dreams.

What have you to say, except the tantramantric : "it's written once, so it has to be true" ?

Oh-oh. Got it wrong again, didnīt you? Iīll just reiterate, then: It does not HAVE to be true, it may or may not be true, but a record is a record, and should be taken much more seriously than wishful thinking.

Or : "6'7 isn't too tall."
Which is wrong, clearly and statiscally so.

Is it? Then tell me, what is it TOO tall for? Your taste? Or the realms of possibility?

It's far too tall for the East End 1888.

No. Galton tells us that there were fivehundred people reaching the height of 6 ft 5 and over in Victorian London. He is the authority, you are the wishful thinker.

Too tall to be not commented on by the medics.

Balderdash.

Too tall to have not been mentioned by MJK and her friends.

... and more of the same. This has been dealt with myriads of times.

And 11st to 11st8lbs make a more than surprisingly thin fellow.

Nope. Mildly thin, not surprisingly thin, as per the WHO, who - incidentally - is the authority, while you are the wishful thinker.

(I'm 20 centimeters shorter, 5 kilos heavier, and I'm already thin.)

Says ...?

A likely mistake, that's all you have against Fleming's candidacy. Or so it seems.

To ...?

And you use this likely mistake to prevent any serious discussion about Fleming.

No, I donīt. I use it to make the point that there is a lot of revisionism and gun-jumping going on. A serious discussion about Fleming is better served without that.

However, Colin Roberts, Lynn Cates, Dave, Garry, Debs, Roy and others agree that 6'7 is a possible or probable mistake. And they are not obsessed by Fleming-the-Ripper, as far as I know.

Ben. You forgot Ben! And Sally! How did that come about? And you forgot me too; I also say that it is a possible mistake (so you can conveniently group me in with the ones who would never say probable)

All the best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Mike
It is a long cherished belief among the more strident Hutchinsonites that he was actually the seccond coming of Fleming. Strictly they are Flutchinsonites but they pretend to be open minded on the subject to avoid derision.
it is a religion as can be Sussed out by the sermons

The only thing I tend to avoid is your ridiculous suspect theory.

The carman who could easily walk away to avoid another carman, that means.

I know, you're bitter because you have failed to convince anybody - except Fish and your brother-in-law.

And worse : you have even taken the name of your suspect as your alias. Now you're married to him and compelled to stick to your theory.

My heart bleeds !