The records from Claybury Asylum

[Chris Scott]

Many thanks for the pics - much appreciated

[Roy Corduroy]

Linen Room, Claybury Asylum 1893

[GUT]

Don't you just love the outfits the poor girls worked in.

I've got a photo somewhere of men digging ditches at about that same time in suits and ties.

SOME changes have been for the better.

[DVV]

Many thanks Roy.

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Roy. Thanks for posting.

Well done!

Cheers.
LC

[pinkmoon]

I do admire people who take the bull by the horns get out of their arm chair(unlike me) and do something constructive concerning this fascinating case and maybe just maybe something interesting might be discoverd in some old file but I have always thought (and I might be wrong in this) that if any inmate of an asylum mentioned that he had committed serious crimes and it came to the attention of the staff than surely this information would be reported to the police.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Graham

I'm not sure how much notice anybody at all took of anybody in an asylum...I'm halfway through a book by Sara Wise, entitled "Inconvenient People"...it's about Lunatic Asylums, and people who shouldn't really have been in them. May not sound much, but it's a cracking book, and I'd wholeheartily recommend it.

There were any number of quite clearly SANE people locked away. whose protestations were totally ignored...what chance a genuine nutter?

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

[QUOTE=Cogidubnus;299857]Hi Graham

I'm not sure how much notice anybody at all took of anybody in an asylum...I'm halfway through a book by Sara Wise, entitled "Inconvenient People"...it's about Lunatic Asylums, and people who shouldn't really have been in them. May not sound much, but it's a cracking book, and I'd wholeheartily recommend it.

There were any number of quite clearly SANE people locked away. whose protestations were totally ignored...what chance a genuine nutter?

All the best

Dav
e[/QUOTE
Hi Dave,I watched a programme some years ago about Victorian aslyums and it highlighted the fact that a lot of men used to try and of load their unwanted wife's onto them in fact quite a few doctors would help out for a certain fee and make sure the wife's never saw the light of day again.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Graham

Yes, but not just unwanted wives... parents whose money would come in handy, persons with whom you had a vendetta, children whose lives you were determined to control, etc...

It's honestly a great book...and a real eyeopener...

All the best

Dave

[Errata]

Today I received a reply from Redbridge Record Office of the information they have regarding Fleming/Evans at Claybury
Sadly there is very little - in fact the information is confined to his admission record with, apparently, no follow up notes as was the case with the Stone Asylum
Here is the reply I received today:

Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Claybury Asylum


Dear Mr Scott,
I am glad to tell you that the Health Authority has agreed to release to you the details of Mr James Evans, alias Joseph Fleming.
The information is as follows:
He was admitted to Claybury as James Evans, on 14th February 1895, transferring from Stone. He was then 40 years old, unmarried, a pauper (the responsibility of Bethnal Green), and had been a dock labourer. His religion is given as C of E. His illness was described as mania, to which he had a hereditary disposition, and was precipitated by the use of alcohol. This was his first attack, which had lasted 3 years. He died on 28th August 1920.

You will deduce from the above that the understanding then of mental illness and its causes was very different from our own.

Just to inject a little perspective into this (not fact, just perspective), mood disorders are incredibly susceptible to alcohol. It's a depressant that binds with the same receptors as several neurotransmitters, so people with mood disorders overproduce to compensate. When the alcohol wears off, the neurologic imbalance remains. In the case of mania, which tends to feel great even when it's scary, the brain tries to keep the high. And is usually pretty damn successful. Being bipolar with a depressive slant, If I have a glass of wine I can trigger a several months long depression. Obviously I no longer drink. But back then without any of that being known... yeah. this diagnosis could be correct and valid.

And there is a hereditary component. It isn't 1 to 1, but the child of someone with a mood disorder has a 60% chance of having a mood disorder. Not really sure why, I've never heard that they have identified any mood disorder genes. But we have twin studies and about 80 years of records with mostly correct diagnosis, so we have the statistics.

The unusual part of this is his first attack being at the age of 40. It couldn't have been. It was probably the first attack that everyone recognized as being mental illness, as opposed to just being irritable or kind of hyper. A late diagnosis is not uncommon even today. But the first attack at 40 would indicate a brain injury. And mood disorders when severe can cause psychosis, which is a lot easier to spot than just mood lability. I'm betting this was the first attack that made people take a few steps back, but not his actual first attack.

[Roy Corduroy]

..I'm halfway through a book by Sara Wise, entitled "Inconvenient People"...it's about Lunatic Asylums, and people who shouldn't really have been in them. May not sound much, but it's a cracking book, and I'd wholeheartily recommend it.

There were any number of quite clearly SANE people locked away. whose protestations were totally ignored...what chance a genuine nutter?

... not just unwanted wives... parents whose money would come in handy, persons with whom you had a vendetta, children whose lives you were determined to control, etc...

It's honestly a great book...and a real eyeopener...

Thanks for the recommendation, I've not read the newest Sarah Wise book yet, but I will.

Yes it was a common theme, those declared mad.



On the other hand, Joe Fleming (James Evans) did seem to have a mental problem which required his committal.

And I agree with the comment of the late Chris Scott, as further explained by Errata. We have to read between the lines when studying the old mental records. This has various connotations. For instance, some today argue a 'lunatic' could not have done the murders. But since we have different knowledge and standards now for insanity it follows the comparison is hard to make.

Roy

[MrBarnett]

In the 1980’s my parents had a small general store in Tomswood Hill near Claybury Hospital. One of our regular customers was a lovely white-haired old lady who used to call in two or three times a week to buy sweets. She was always smiling and happy, though not too talkative. One day after she had left the shop another customer, who worked at Claybury, remarked ‘ She’s one of ours.’ She then told us the old lady’s story. She had been committed to Claybury by her parents because she was an unruly teenager. There was nothing medically wrong with her but she had remained there for the rest of her life. After a time she had become too institutionalised to release.

[Roy Corduroy]

Thanks for sharing that, Mr B

There was nothing medically wrong with her but she had remained there for the rest of her life. After a time she had become too institutionalised to release.

Oh dear, it's like being a Casebooker

Roy

[GUT]

In the 1980’s my parents had a small general store in Tomswood Hill near Claybury Hospital. One of our regular customers was a lovely white-haired old lady who used to call in two or three times a week to buy sweets. She was always smiling and happy, though not too talkative. One day after she had left the shop another customer, who worked at Claybury, remarked ‘ She’s one of ours.’ She then told us the old lady’s story. She had been committed to Claybury by her parents because she was an unruly teenager. There was nothing medically wrong with her but she had remained there for the rest of her life. After a time she had become too institutionalised to release.

I understand that in the USA there are people in gaol for the same reason, they are eligible for release but after 40+ years are too institutionalised.

[MysterySinger]

It is obvious that Joseph Fleming had a history of mental illness given the records available. He had used the alias of James Evans also for some years. He had a history of removal and resettlement.

He may have had several jobs, variously labourer, plasterer's labourer, french polisher, boot maker's apprentice. According to one record he resided in Royston Street during his apprenticeship but I suspect that shortly afterwards moved to 125 Brick Lane.