The records from Stone Asylum for Joseph Fleming - transcription

[Cogidubnus]

I'm suggesting that perhaps/maybe/just possibly the event became locally known (with typical East End black humour) as the Coconut Shy...trouble is, I only thought of the possible (and very tenuous!) link within the past hour and so far have been unable to find out when that particular event took place...

One Salvationist website suggests 1880...ish...

[lynn cates]

date

Hello Cog. Interesting. If the date could be narrowed down a bit, I could research it in the papers. Unfortunately, my newspaper service has an utterly deplorable search function.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Ah well...never mind... I'll keep looking but in any event I regard my bill hook contribution as a little more valuable anyway...but thanks anyway for offering...you're a gent!

[lynn cates]

soon?

Hello Cog. Don't mention it. And be sure to let me know if the date can be narrowed down to a year or so.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

And just to complicate things, Salvationists weren't always referred to as such at that time...which doesn't help in search terms, (I've already tried the Old Bailey records without success and loads of SA sites)...(the name's Dave by the way, but being a newbie I can't yet put a signature on and I keep forgetting otherwise).

Cheers

Dave (son of a real old cockney)

[DVV]

Hi Cogidubnus, you know, it took me years to understand what was Coconut Shy.
And now you're telling me I only thought I knew ?!

[lynn cates]

suggestion

Hello Dave. Then you must meet Phil Carter--he definitely has East End roots.

Say, if you are interested, perhaps you could "borrow" my newspaper service briefly and see if you can get some hits?

PM me if you're interested. (If not, tell me to go to the devil--heh-heh.)

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Lynn: I really am interested Lynn, but understand that because of my junior status I can't use the PM function...sadly...

Dave: I'm only guessing from the point of view of a cockney's son...

[DVV]

No problem, Dave, go ahead.
Now, as a cockney's son, you could also gather info about the "basic" Coconut Shy game...was it popular ? when and where people played that, etc etc

[lynn cates]

email

Hello Dave. OK. Try my email. I am:

lcates@hotmail.com

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Dave

It's not necessarily a London game...it's nationwide...

People played it (and still do) as a special-event fairground entertainment...but NOT generally out in the street...which is what made me think...

You pay a fee and receive (normally) three balls, which you pitch (throw), each in turn, at coconuts which are perched in cups on top of poles about a metre high...if you knock a coconut from the cup you win it...

I'm only guessing though at the Salvation Army connection...

[DVV]

The girls in my village are asking me your phone number, Lynn.

[lynn cates]

old age

Hello David. Their great grandfathers passed away, perhaps? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

http://www.liberation.fr/societe/0101347266-interdit-de-mourir-au-lavandou

Nobody passed away, Lynn. It's officially forbidden to die in my village. Not a joke.

[Debra A]

Hi Dave (son of a real old cockney)
Thanks for your input into the hook question. I think we kind of thought between us that Flemming had some sort of 'Longshoreman's hook' in his possessions, a tool of his trade most likely. Thanks for the confirmation of this, I'm taking it that a 'bill hook' was something similar?as I've never heard the term before.


Are you thinking of an 'Aunt Sally' type game?
(Aunt sally, Sally Army?...just a thought. I used to love Worzel Gummidge when I was a kid )

Here's a little snippet about cockneys and street cocoanut shys. Don't know if it will be readable at this size though.