The records from Stone Asylum for Joseph Fleming - transcription

[Debra A]

Mr Ben – take a look at the original document that Debra posted (post 148 page 15).
I am certain the 1892 address is Victoria Home, not Victoria House.

Well spotted, Lechmere!
I think you are absolutley right about it saying 'home' and not 'house', although I wasn't trying to make any particular point with that, in the past I have posted a few snippets that call the Victoria Home, 'Vicoria House' so I assumed it was the same place.

[Lechmere]

I had a look at Cyprus Street today – where Joseph Fleming (Evans) lived for a period.

It was built in 1850-51 and was called Wellington Street. In 1878 Cyprus became a British possession and to mark this event, in 1879 it was renamed Cyprus Street.
A pub half way down the street is still called the Duke of Wellington, but it has recently been converted to flats (although the sign is still there).

The houses were numbered consecutively when it was called Wellington Street, with No 1 being on the south side of the eastern end.
When it was re-christened as Cyprus Street the houses were re-numbered with evens on the south side and odds on the north side with No 1 and No 2 (opposite each other). The numbers started at the western end as became the convention (with the lowest numbers at the end of the road that points towards the centre of London).
This is how the road is still numbered.
For some reason the houses at the far eastern end of road were replaced in 1906 with new cottages built by the East End Dwellings Company Limited.

A section in the middle of Cyprus Street (between the Victorian and the Edwardian houses) was replaced with flats in the 1960s. A war memorial had been set on the wall of one of the houses that was demolished. The memorial was kept in the Duke of Wellington for a while but has since been re-set further down the street. It commemorates all the people from this one street who died in the First World War, and an extra plaque has been added for the Second World War.

The Fleming family lived at 60 Wellington Street and 4 Cyprus Street. This was the same property.
It is no longer there as it is one of the ones that was replaced in 1906 (it is the second door from the right - above the white car).

The Fleming family was there in 1861, 1871 and 1881 (although Joseph Fleming himself was gone by then).
Most of the houses in this attractive street are owned by a housing association. The private ones go for more than £1/2 million now. In the early 1980s I know the unmodernised ones were going for less than £30,000!

[Ben]

Many thanks for these, Lechmere. Most interesting.

Had I known about the Fleming connection when I met the lady who ended up doing my voice-over CD in nearby Tredegar Street, I would certainly have whipped out the camera there and then!

All the best,
Ben

[DVV]

Hi Ben

I have serious trouble accepting that he was 6’7”, 11 stone in weight and in “good” health, for example
Ben

A most reasonable trouble, if you ask me.

And I have serious trouble with people that accept so quickly and without reserve that he was 6'7 because it has been written once.

What's the cause of such sudden lacks of discernement ?

Amitiés,
Dvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[lynn cates]

records

Hello David. Makes one wonder whether there are any other records about where his height is stated?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello Lynn, in my opinion there may be.
Actually, there may be a lot in Claybury.

[lynn cates]

accessibility

Hello David. Splendid!

Are they accessible?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello David. Splendid!

Are they accessible?

Cheers.
LC

Not sure. I've heard of unsuccessful attempts some time ago.

Again, there are his prison (reformatory) records after the 1872 affair. Where are they ? And first, to which reformatory has he been sent ?

[lynn cates]

incident

Hello David. Are you referring to the incident when he was a wee lad? I need to look that one up. perhaps the records are still there.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

The break-in case, Lynn, see the thread "Fleming in 1872".

I wonder where a young criminal of 14 from Bethnal Green would have been sent in 1872.

[lynn cates]

empiricism

Hello David. Well, one way to find out.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello David. Well, one way to find out.

Cheers.
LC

Well, I already know he did it so I will sit quietly and let the unconvinced look for more.

[Debra A]

Henrietta Evans

While going through some Flemming stuff, I noticed that Henrietta, Flemming's mother, was at first addressed as 'Evans' by the asylum authorities:

[The Good Michael]

Deb,

I see 261 Mile St. Was that feet or inches? That was a joke. I appreciate this stuff you dig up more than you know.

Thanks,

Mike

[DVV]

Awesome, Debra.
Poor Joseph must have said first Henrietta was his sister, and never told them her name was Fleming.
Seems consistent with his known delusions of persecution - the use of an alias as an attempt to put the killers off his sent.

Actually he wasn't that mad : the whole country wanted to hang him.

Many thanks.
Dvvvv