Fleming in 1872

[DVV]

Yes Ben,
and as we know the location of Polly's murder has always been a bit "strange".
And Begg tends to dismiss Wilson as an early ripper's attack because of its location, too.
Now I wonder: can we trace Fleming in prison, then in his "reformatory"?
Were Cox and Fleming still friends in 1888?

Amitiés,
David

[Observer]

Hi Chris, here are two views of Schlater street today

Regarding Fleming's accomplice and co defendant, Thomas Cox, the most likely candidate in the 1871 census is:
81 Sclater Street, Bethnal Green
Head: Amelia Cox (Widow) aged 45 born Bethnal Green - Seamstress
Children:
Henry aged 17 - Sailor
Thomas aged 15 - Wood carver
Frederick aged 13 - Chairmaker's assistant
Edward aged 7
George aged 5
Robert aged 1

all the best

Observer

[Stephen Thomas]

Lord knows there must have been a lot of sewing going on back in them days ...

Spoken like a true Cockney, Fisherman.

[Observer]

Two more. The date stone is a close up of the building with scaffolding





all the best

Observer

[Chris Scott]

Many thanks for the pics
Much appreciated

[Sam Flynn]

Regarding Fleming's accomplice and co defendant, Thomas Cox, the most likely candidate in the 1871 census is:
81 Sclater Street, Bethnal Green
Head: Amelia Cox (Widow) aged 45 born Bethnal Green - Seamstress

Why is the name "Amelia Cox" ringing bells with me?

[Fisherman]

Sam asks:

"Why is the name "Amelia Cox" ringing bells with me?"

Perhaps, Sam, you are touching on the fact that AMELIA Richardson of 29 Hanbury Street, housed the elderly woman SARAH Cox out of charity?

All the best, Sam!
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi Fisher

Either that, or could Mary Ann Cox have some connection with Amelia Cox, and Fleming was familiar with her as well as being familiar with Kelly?

all the best

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Chris

Many thanks for the pics
Much appreciated

No problems, listen any idea how the street was numbered? That is did the low numbers start at Brick Lane? Next time I'm down there I could try and locate where 81 stood, or perhaps someone closer to hand could take a piccy

all the best

Observer

[Fisherman]

Observer writes:

"Either that, or could Mary Ann Cox have some connection with Amelia Cox, and Fleming was familiar with her as well as being familiar with Kelly?"

The possibility is there, of course. The census listings we are working from are dated 1871, and Mary Ann Cox would have been a mere 14 at that time - surprisingly, she was no more than 31 when Kelly was slain.

And, of course, she would probably not have been named Cox at the time, since she was a widower by 1888, most probably carrying her late husband´s name.

The best,
Fisherman

[Ben]

Or quite possibly Gareth had "Emilia Fox" at the back of his mind; an English actress and daughter of Edward, often to be seen in costume dramas.

Regards,
Ben

[Fisherman]

For all we know, Ben, he could have had just about ANY foxy lady at the back of his mind...

The best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Fleming was seemingly known at Worship Street's Court, so there's a chance that he had already been tried there.
Any archives available? It should be interesting to hear about his first offense, since it seems a different one than Cox'.
Fleming was sentenced to 1 month imprisonment, then 5 years in a reformatory.
Where were the under aged criminals sent to, at this time?
And do we know about those "reformatories"?

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Sam asks:

"Why is the name "Amelia Cox" ringing bells with me?"

Perhaps, Sam, you are touching on the fact that AMELIA Richardson of 29 Hanbury Street, housed the elderly woman SARAH Cox out of charity?

Precisely that, Fish!

I don't know whether to congratulate or commiserate with you for understanding how my brain works

[Fisherman]

Sam writes:

"I don't know whether to congratulate or commiserate with you for understanding how my brain works"

I´m not quite at ease with that issue either, Sam.

All the best!
Fisherman