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Finding Jack the Ripper

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  • #16
    The Cheek Wounds

    I too watched the programme and found it interesting. What puzzled me was (if I've remembered it correctly) the wounds to Kate Eddowes' cheeks were shown as being X shaped, when my understanding, from the contemporary accounts and sketches, is that they were inverted V or U shaped (I think one of each in the sketches). Did anyone else pick up on this or is my memory at fault here?
    "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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    • #17
      The Trevinator Takes Manhattan

      Hi Bridewell. Since the program was 'Jack the Ripper in America', Trevor needed parallels between Carrie Brown and the Ripper murders. Since Carrie had an 'X' carved into her flesh, thus Eddowes' V's became X's.

      I watched this documentary recently for the first time and have some comments:

      1) Trev gained mucho macho points for how he stared down the Atlantic ocean with his best Dirty Harry grimace.
      2) Trev lost some macho points for the white button-down shirt with the half-sleeves. Seriously bad wardrobe choice.
      3) Trev gained those lost points back and a few extra as well for flirting with the cute girl while he pretended to ask questions about the case.
      4) In all seriousness, his hiring of two experts to give evidence on just what was involved and how long it would take to remove the kidney from Eddowes was very intriguing and thought-provoking. I'm surprised this hasn't been done before now.

      Yours truly,

      Tom Wescott

      Yours truly,

      Tom Wescott

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      • #18
        more reproductions

        Hello Tom.

        "In all seriousness, his hiring of two experts to give evidence on just what was involved and how long it would take to remove the kidney from Eddowes was very intriguing and thought-provoking. I'm surprised this hasn't been done before now."

        Yes, indeed. I'd love to see much more of this sort of thing done.

        Cheers.
        LC

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        • #19
          Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
          Hello Tom.

          "In all seriousness, his hiring of two experts to give evidence on just what was involved and how long it would take to remove the kidney from Eddowes was very intriguing and thought-provoking. I'm surprised this hasn't been done before now."

          Yes, indeed. I'd love to see much more of this sort of thing done.

          Cheers.
          LC
          Hi Lynn
          To put the record straight none of the experts were paid a fee for their services. I thought i would mention this to silence those who might suggest they were paid to say what they said.

          Since that programme I bumped into another retired surgeon who also had an interest in the case. He agreed totally on the conclusions of the team of experts.

          Just for good measure i should mention this point because it was not mentioned in the documentary that a Master Butcher also gave his opinion on being able to remove these organs from a human body in almost total darkness. Interestingly enough he also stated he could not do it. Giving his reasons in statement form as did the medical experts used in the making of the programme.

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          • #20
            Och, I did nae pay.

            Hello Trevor. Not spending any money? Even better!

            (The Scots are the men who won't be paying for nothing.)

            Seriously, well done for all that.

            Cheers.
            LC

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            • #21
              Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
              "In all seriousness, his hiring of two experts to give evidence on just what was involved and how long it would take to remove the kidney from Eddowes was very intriguing and thought-provoking. I'm surprised this hasn't been done before now."
              Yes, indeed. I'd love to see much more of this sort of thing done.
              For God's sake, Lynn, I hope not to your wife again, while filming it and posting it as a YouTube? ;-)

              PS.: I'll look at WHH's hand as soon as my visitor leaves, tomorrow. Thank you very much for sending it.
              Best regards,
              Maria

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              • #22
                the wife

                Hello Maria.

                "For God's sake, Lynn, I hope not to your wife again,"

                And why not? Whom better? (Heh-heh) Well, not much damage with a cardboard and styroform knife.

                That sample is in a very bad hand--hard to decipher. Looks almost like the Maybrick diarist.

                Cheers.
                LC

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                  Hello Trevor. Not spending any money? Even better!

                  (The Scots are the men who won't be paying for nothing.)

                  Seriously, well done for all that.

                  Cheers.
                  LC
                  The follow up programme will be called "We tried to find JTR but couldnt find him because he didnt exist"

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                  • #24
                    a hearty amen

                    Hello Trevor. Amen to that.

                    Cheers.
                    LC

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                      That sample is in a very bad hand--hard to decipher. Looks almost like the Maybrick diarist.
                      I'll look it up after having slept haven't slept for 2 nights and going through a lot currently, on different fronts.
                      Best regards,
                      Maria

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi Trevor,

                        Do you currently have one or two documentaries out?

                        Yours truly,

                        Tom Wescott

                        P.S. Which of the Ripper victims do you like Le Grand for, or was he the torso killer?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                          Hi Trevor,

                          Do you currently have one or two documentaries out?

                          Yours truly,

                          Tom Wescott

                          P.S. Which of the Ripper victims do you like Le Grand for, or was he the torso killer?
                          Hi Tom

                          Only one out at the moment but another is on the drawing board.

                          As for Le Grand I do not beleive he was involved in any Ripper murder and at the risk of incurring the wrath of Debra. I dont believe that the murder referred to as the Torso murder was in fact a murder.

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                          • #28
                            Hi all, I found the documentary fascinating too, but while the input of experts is valuable, I think there's a sense in which it might be misleading: it is second nature for a surgeon to remove an organ as carefully as possible, in well-lit conditions. Ask him or her whether they could perform such extensive procedures in ten minutes in the dark and they say, inevitably, 'no way!' But the question is always leading: could you locate and extract a kidney/uterus/heart in the dark in a matter of minutes? Try asking a different question: could a lust-murderer with a very sharp knife open up an abdomen, cut through anything in his way, and remove whatever organs randomly took his fancy, while accidentally slicing open intestine in one instance or leaving a third of the uterus in-situ on another occasion?

                            I think the answer then is more likely a cautious yes than a definite no. The questions are always leading: they always imply that a specific organ is sought and found. And a surgeon will answer, inevitably, as a surgeon.

                            Also, the clean extraction is always highlighted: the failed decapitations, ruptured intestines and bisected uterus are rarely given equal weight.

                            Still, an enjoyable watch

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                            • #29
                              Excellent post, Henry. I too believe the Ripper was a slash and grab merchant.

                              Best wishes,
                              Steve.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Henry Flower View Post
                                Hi all, I found the documentary fascinating too, but while the input of experts is valuable, I think there's a sense in which it might be misleading: it is second nature for a surgeon to remove an organ as carefully as possible, in well-lit conditions. Ask him or her whether they could perform such extensive procedures in ten minutes in the dark and they say, inevitably, 'no way!' But the question is always leading: could you locate and extract a kidney/uterus/heart in the dark in a matter of minutes? Try asking a different question: could a lust-murderer with a very sharp knife open up an abdomen, cut through anything in his way, and remove whatever organs randomly took his fancy, while accidentally slicing open intestine in one instance or leaving a third of the uterus in-situ on another occasion?

                                I think the answer then is more likely a cautious yes than a definite no. The questions are always leading: they always imply that a specific organ is sought and found. And a surgeon will answer, inevitably, as a surgeon.

                                Also, the clean extraction is always highlighted: the failed decapitations, ruptured intestines and bisected uterus are rarely given equal weight.

                                Still, an enjoyable watch
                                I agree with this completely. In this series of murders, women were nearly decapitated and mutilated, with intestines strewn about at the crime scenes, and the alternative hypothesis for the missing organs is that they were removed sometime later during the autopsy? In an extremely high profile case? I just find this highly unlikely.

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