Montague Druitt and 9 Kings Bench Walk Chambers

[Robert]

So David Anderson now becomes the Prime Suspect.

John, I can't find a Nil Desperandum but there was a Nils Desperandum, Danish barrister, if that's any help.

Robert

[Johnr]

Hello Robert and Chris Phillips and Chris Scott,
I hope you are going to release a compendium of your one-liners one day Robert.Some of them are rather good.Nil Aspadistrum.
Sorry for rousing you Chris P. But good to see you on the boards!
Chris Scott. Sorry I did not acknowledge your sterling work in posting all the occupants of Kings Bench Walk for 1891.Curious how few people actually lived in the area. (Would that make it better as a hideout for a possible Ripper? No...).
Interesting how the neighbourhood changed in that decade from 1881.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[aspallek]

Well, here's something. Make a note of it, John, because a week from now I'll have forgotten where I posted it - or even if I posted it.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....mond/kings.htm

Thanks for that informative link which does confirm that there were residences in some of the KBW buildings in 1888. Indeed, we know from Sophia Lonsdale's memoirs that in the 1880s her brother John resided at "The Temple," certainly a reference to his chambers at KBW, but that sometime in the period he "changed his rooms" (which must have been his move to Blackheath).

A basement set of chambers at KBW in 1888 went for £40 per annum. That's about £3000 today. Somewhere I found the cost of Druitt's rail pass between Blackheath and London. I believe that was £12 for the season, or £920 today. Ground floor chambers at KBW went for £80. Even if Montague had a basement set of rooms he was into it for £4000-£6000 in today's values between his rent and commuting expense, depending on how many "season" rail passes he would require in a year.

[Robert]

Hi Andy

If I rented such chambers, I would expect the door to have a lock, and I would carry the key with me at all times, to guard against the possibility of arriving there and finding I'd left the key at home. As far as I can recall, no keys were found on Druitt. Of course, the key may have fallen out in the water - maybe even along with Mary Kelly's - but coins were found in his pockets. So I find that a bit of a puzzle.

Robert

[aspallek]

An interesting question, Robert. But then, I'm sure Montague carried a key to Valentine's with him as well and that key was not found on him, either.

An interesting question is whether Montague went to his chambers on December 1 before travelling on to Hammermsith. Of course, we cannot know. He was involved in a legal case during the preceding week that was supposed to be continued on 1 December but was not. Although the case was not continued that day, he may still have needed to take care of some related matters at his chambers or he may not have even been informed that his presence was not required in court until he arrived at his chambers.

The factor that argues against his turning up at chambers on December 1 regards his apparent rail movements. Working backward, the ticket found on him was for travel between Charing Cross and Hammersmith. If he were at his chambers and wanted to travel to Hammersmith, he could have boarded a train at Temple rather than walking or taking a taxi or omnibus all the way to Charing Cross.

[Robert]

Hi Andy

I suppose that Druitt could have visited his chambers on 1st. Then let's say William's friend writes to him from London on 10th, the letter reaches William on 11th, and it would be 9 days between 1st and the despatch of the letter on 10th, during which time Druitt would not have been heard of.

If Druitt's chambers were non-residential, and he only used them for the odd hour or two each day or every other day, then I don't quite see how the other chamber-holders could feel sure that Druitt hadn't called in and gone out again - unless there was a book for the barristers to sign?

Robert

[aspallek]

Robert,

I think the remark of Druitt's friends that he hadn't been seen at his chambers for more than a week is a loose remark. I think they were just saying "we haven't seen Montie around for more than a week" rather than "Montague has not shown his face at KBW in more than a week." His friends were used to seeing him around every day or two and they hadn't seen him now in over a week and that must have been strange, particularly when he was involved in active cases.

But if he were at his chambers and decided to go to Hammersmith, why would he walk right past the nearby station at Temple and walk all the way to Charing Cross? He would catch the same Metropolitan District train at either station. Perhaps he merely wanted to take a walk along the Embankment but if I remember correctly it was an inclement day.

[Robert]

Hi Andy

On the other hand, if he'd just been sacked from one job, with the prospect of reduced earnings until he could find another teaching position, why not call in at his chambers to see if there was any new work for him - particularly as he could now give his legal work his full attention. Search me!

Robert

[aspallek]

I thought this photo might be of interest. This shows no. 5 Kings Bench Walk. The fainter names to the right are on a portion of the wall where siding has been removed. I am not sure when they date from but they are possibly Victorian. John Henry Lonsdale has been reported to have had chambers at no. 5, although the only listing I have seen for him is at no. 1.

[fido]

The whole discussion of Druitt's chambers seems to have been promoted by people unfamiliar with the Inns of Court. Chambers, as you might see in the Rumpole series, are not individual private offices: they are suites shared by groups of barristers under a Master in Chambers. One clerk serves teh entire group. There are (or were) a few empty chambers (in ht 1960s all on the top floors) let to individuals as apartments. Dickens often alludes to such (and in the 1960s I often stayed in apartments in Pump Court and Goldsmith's Building in the Middle Temple). These would not be known as chambers. Druitt was not in one of these.
Chambers in the Inns of Court would be a quite impossible plce to 'come and go and change his clothes and get rid of his bloodstains".
All the best,
Martin F

[Johnr]

Greetings Martin F and all,
Martin, if you look at my opening remarks at the head of this thread you will see I refer to a (lost?) posting on an old thread in which someone ( I thought Robert or Chris S or even A.P.?- yourself ?) posted details of the individual rooms (rear top floor,etc) and the rental paid by these occupants.
Do you by any chance have a copy of this?I think the information came from the powers-that-be for the Inns of Court. If so, I think it would enhance your post above.
May I ask how you are sure Druitt was not a top floor 9 KBW resident?
Other than these points I appreciate the drift of your posting and agree .
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Johnr]

Please excuse my asking a question of Martin then rudely posting before he can answer.But he didsay elsewhere he was busy and time-poor.
I have found a copy of the letter I sought listing 9 KBW occupants ('in the late '80's') it was from the Archivist, Dr Clare Rider of Inner Temple Archives, London.
And yes, robert C Linford, it was to you. (See your post on the thread you linked dated July 23 2004).

I originally asked for these details since Howells & Skinner mention Reg. Dyke-Acland being on the floor below MJD. (How did they know? So what chambers did MJD occupy?).
My reason for wanting to know is that if MJD occupied/shared chambers with Dyke-Acland ,we would have a further evidence of possible closeness.
As it happens, Robert's letter stated: Basement: E H Bedford;F I Coltman;ground floor: T l mears; First floor north A R Jelf;First floor south C h anderson;2nd Floor nortyh G S brown; 2nd Floor south G St J Mildmay;3rd Floor north H G cooper; 3rd Floor south J Wingfield.
The 1891 Census had Cooper as the only occupant. JOHN RUFFELS

[aspallek]

Thank you, Martin, for that helpful description. My interest in Druitt's chambers is not in the possibility of his using it as a refuge after the murders. My interest is more in terms of knowing who he associated with on a more or less daily basis (such as JH Lonsdale) and also understanding his commute from Blackheath to London.

[Johnr]

The Relevance Of My Chambers' Occupants Question

Greetings One and All,

The reason for my starting this thread was to see if we could discover just whose chambers (or ' sets ' - of rooms), Montague Druitt shared.
To me -given the length of time he was listed as an occupant in the P.O. Directories- this would be an indication of the name of at least one person we could definitely say was linked to MJD.
And if it wasn't the Bookings Clerk in Chambers who alerted MJD's brother that Monty had 'not been seen in chambers for over a week ', then perhaps it was the lawyer he shared with.( Perhaps chasing a weekly rent?).
Because I finally located the letter sent to Robert by Dr Clare Rider indicating who occupied which rooms, I found it interesting that both Reggie Dyke-Acland and Montague Druitt failed to appear on the list.
For this reason I was fascinated in the remark made, in passing, by Howells & Skinner in their book: that Montague occupied rooms in the floor directly below Reggie. I repeat: how did Howells & Skinner know?

[Johnr]

The Relevance Of My Chambers' Occupants Question

Greetings One and All,

The reason for my starting this thread was to see if we could discover just whose chambers (or ' sets ' - of rooms), Montague Druitt shared.
To me -given the length of time he was listed as an occupant in the P.O. Directories- this would be an indication of the name of at least one person we could definitely say was linked to MJD at 9 Kings Bench Walk.
And if it wasn't the Bookings Clerk in Chambers who alerted MJD's brother that Monty had 'not been seen in chambers for over a week ', then perhaps it was the lawyer he shared with.( Perhaps chasing a weekly rent?).
Because I finally located the letter sent to Robert by Dr Clare Rider indicating who occupied which rooms, I found it interesting that both Reggie Dyke-Acland and Montague Druitt failed to appear on the list.
For this reason I was fascinated in the remark made, in passing, by Howells & Skinner in their book: that Montague occupied rooms in the floor directly below Reggie. I repeat: how did Howells & Skinner know? JOHN RUFFELS.