What makes Druitt a viable suspect?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hey Herlock and The Baron,

Enough already.

Would you girls please go and get a room?

Regards,

Simon

You’re right Simon. It’s gone on too long. I’ll try and ignore him.

[Wickerman]

Is there any evidence that he did rent a room? ....[/QUOTE]

What type of evidence would you expect to see?
He isn't likely to make a record of it in some diary, neither is he likely to discuss living among the dregs of humanity with his siblings. If we are going to ask for evidence, there must be some reasonable expectation behind the request.

Couldn't it be quite reasonably argued that a killer of strangers might rent a room because he knows his presence would be hard to trace?

[Wickerman]

I agree they don't commit suicide....

On that point I agree, if some have killed themselves it isn't the normal end. However, that argument can work both ways.
Some might say that because he killed himself this is another argument against Druitt being the killer.
But, others might say that because serial killers don't normally kill themselves then this is another argument that, if he was the killer, he must have been murdered.

[Abby Normal]

On that point I agree, if some have killed themselves it isn't the normal end. However, that argument can work both ways.
Some might say that because he killed himself this is another argument against Druitt being the killer.
But, others might say that because serial killers don't normally kill themselves then this is another argument that, if he was the killer, he must have been murdered.

unfortunately theyre rarely, if ever, murdered before they stop either.

[The Baron]

Druitt's family didn't know much about his movements, he was absent from his room for more than a week and his brother didn't know until someone told him so. He didn't even know his brother was dismissed from school, furthermore he said he had no other relative.

How could they suspect him being the ripper then?!

There is no base for such a claim.


The Baron

[Abby Normal]

Druitt's family didn't know much about his movements, he was absent from his room for more than a week and his brother didn't know until someone told him so. He didn't even know his brother was dismissed from school, furthermore he said he had no other relative.

How could they suspect him being the ripper then?!

There is no base for such a claim.


The Baron

oh I don't know-maybe he confessed to one of them before he went missing? or could be a myriad other reasons-not knowing he was missing or dismissed dosnt mean they couldn't have some sort of idea or evidence he was the ripper.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The fact that they didn’t know where Monty was doesn’t by any stretch mean that they couldn’t have suspected that he was the ripper. Why would these facts be connected. They lived in different towns over 100 miles apart. Why would they know that he’d gone missing or that he’d been sacked until someone informed them of the facts? These things happened between the last time that William saw Monty and the day that he was informed that Monty was missing. The fact that William had said that Monty had no other relatives might simply show that William didn’t want the press bothering his relatives.

And so absolutely nothing about this is detrimental to the suggestion that Monty might have been guilty.

[Herlock Sholmes]

oh I don't know-maybe he confessed to one of them before he went missing? or could be a myriad other reasons-not knowing he was missing or dismissed dosnt mean they couldn't have some sort of idea or evidence he was the ripper.

Exactly Abby.

[The Baron]

oh I don't know-maybe he confessed to one of them before he went missing? or could be a myriad other reasons-not knowing he was missing or dismissed dosnt mean they couldn't have some sort of idea or evidence he was the ripper.

Druitt's mother once attempted suicide by overdosing on laudanum. Her mother before her had committed suicide, and her sister had tried to kill herself as well. Montague's oldest sister killed herself in old age by jumping from an attic window.

Were they all srial killers too Abby?!


The Baron

[rjpalmer]

"Serial-killers don't commit suicide..."

O dear. I put about as much faith in the "rules" about "serial killers" concocted by "forensic profilers" in the 1980s and 90s as I do in the Demonologies written by the learned scholars of the 16th and 17th Centuries.

"The witch never goeth forth on the sabbath..."

Think it through, people. How can anyone state that "serial killers" never commit suicide unless suspected by the police?

The statement is meaningless, because it is not open to falsification. It can never be proven, nor disproven.

Some bloke blows his brains out in his apartment in Littlerock. He could have been guilty of all sorts of nastiness, but unless he left a confession or had photos of missing school-girls on his mantlepiece, we'd never know one way or the other.

Similarly, the Zodiac Killer, the Cleveland Maniac, etc. etc., could all have topped themselves and we'd be none the wiser.

So this supposed "rule" is nonsensical, because it is necessarily based on data collected from "solved" cases, which, by their very nature, make the statement unknowable!

That alone, should make you wonder about the logic of the Quantico profilers who dreamed up these popular clichés.

You'd think there were no unsolved murders out there, when there are hundreds.

Okay, surf's up.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Druitt's mother once attempted suicide by overdosing on laudanum. Her mother before her had committed suicide, and her sister had tried to kill herself as well. Montague's oldest sister killed herself in old age by jumping from an attic window.

Were they all srial killers too Abby?!


The Baron

Has anyone suggested that everyone with mental health issues is a serial killer? No-one has even suggested that because there were mental health issues in Druitt’s family that makes him more likely to have been guilty. Now I’m no expert in mental health so I’ll happily stand to be corrected on this one but might it not slightly increase the likelihood that Druitt might have had some kind of worsening mental health issue? Added to the fact that he committed suicide of course. (Unless we suspect murder or accept that it’s a possibility.)

[Simon Wood]

Hi RJ,

Even when serial killers are caught we end up none the wiser, because the next one who comes along probably has a different set of issues and motives.

Anyway, who first set in stone that the C5 were victims of a serial killer?

Cue . . . The Surfaris.

Wipeout!

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Connected to the Druitt situation.. Bare with me a little.

In Donald McCormick s paperback 1970 revision of his 1959 book "The identity of Jack the Ripper", he writes a lot dismantling Tom Cullens 1965 book. (and thereby the Druitt theory).. Which seems to be raising its head yet again.
Now I'm certainly no fan of McCormick's style of writing. His book is generally recognised as a lot of invented text. However, there is a part in the book that often goes unnoticed. I certainly had forgotten it until yesterday.He tries to explain how Druitt became a "Ripper suspect", and in doing so, quotes a London doctor who knew Walter Sickert and who's father was at Oxford with Druitt. I quote...

"The story as told to me was much the same as the version given by Oswalk Sitwell. Sickert was often uncertain about names, and the name of the young veterinary student was something like Druitt. It may have been Drewett, or even Hewitt. Anyhow, Sickert told me he had repeated the yarn to Sir Melville Macnaghten once at the Garrick Club and that Macnagthen was convinced it must have been Druitt because he had a, widowed mother living at Bournemouth, the same as Druitt. Possibly Sir Melville developed his own theory in consequence of what Sickert told him..."

And a little later..

(referring to Sickert, the London Doctor continued..)

" .. My father was convinced there was no connection between Sickert story and Druitt. He always told me that the story about Druitt being the Ripper arose through the barrister being blackmailed by someone who threatened to denounce him as Jack the Ripper to the school at which he worked. "

Now, first if all. I repeat. I have little faith in McCormick's book. Very little. But it raises interesting questions. Perhaps Paul Begg may be able to answer one or two in particular? It would be most appreciated. Thank you.

What was the name of the London doctor McCormick quotes, who knew Sickert, and who's father was at Oxford with Druitt? Was this story ever checked out?

For to verify the story at all, we must have a name to attribute the story to, otherwise we must, like much of McCormick's book, put this too down to literary invention.

Secondly, we must consider Albert Bachert. He maintained that as early as 1889 the story of the drowned doctor was told or leaked to him by the police themselves. And that there was an element of hushing up the whole JTR business. (not the drowned doctor bit)

I suspect that the drowned Doctor theory was already in motion a long time before 1894. I also suspect that it was indeed the police who first put forward the idea, way before 1894. Why? Because MM proudly states that he had never kept a diary, nor a notebook.
And therefore we are sadly committed to his memory of events. And because of the alarming lack of precision in his memoranda re Ostrog, Druitt, Cutbush et al, our suspicions as to his use of memory must be confirmed. For had he the possibility to look at known facts, especially about Ostrog, and possibly about Druitt, he would never have gotten his purported facts so song. Doctor instead of Barrister, 41 instead of 31, Cutbush being a nephew of a renowned policeman, Ostrog and Kosminski being of murderous disposition, etc etc.

Another thing I want to know, re McCormick, is the insistance that Kosminski 's name was actually Karminski. Where Does that originate?


Thanks for the help.


Phil

Reposting 5 pages on, hoping for a reply, from anyone? That is if everyone has finished having pops at each other? Thank you kindly.

Phil

[Wickerman]

Druitt's mother once attempted suicide by overdosing on laudanum. Her mother before her had committed suicide, and her sister had tried to kill herself as well. Montague's oldest sister killed herself in old age by jumping from an attic window.

Were they all srial killers too Abby?!


The Baron

Right, but all of them killed themselves after prolonged suffering. That is normally what leads people to the ultimate solution.
With Montie, we have no idea that he suffered from any mental illness.
All we have with Montie is this idea that he suddenly decided to kill himself, people don't normally just decide to kill themselves.
Either, considerably more was going on with Montie in his personal life (pain, suffering, dementia?), or the whole idea is a sham.

[Wickerman]

Reposting 5 pages on, hoping for a reply, from anyone? That is if everyone has finished having pops at each other? Thank you kindly.

Phil

Quite embarrassingly I admit McCormick's book was the first Ripper book I ever read. From a factual basis it ranks among the worst.
It wouldn't be wise to use any uncorroborated stories only found in his book as the basis for an argument. The whole thing is best ignored from a researchers point of view.
Maybe this is why you had no replies.