Druitt and Monro

[Wickerman]

But the absence of any intimacy allegations from the school committed by Druitt against any female members of staff I think it proves my original suggestion that he was a homosexual.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Where's the allegation of intimacy against any boys?

If you are applying a guiding rule, you have to apply it equally.

No-one even suggested the trouble was of a sexual nature, maybe it was theft, or striking a child, or another teacher, or being rude to Mr Valentine, there are plenty of alternatives.

[Trevor Marriott]

What a strange post. Of course I can’t prove he wasn’t but that doesn’t mean that you can just assume that he was. All that you’re doing Trevor is your inventing something so that you can dismiss him.

How can Feigenbaum have been the killer of women if he was gay?

Druitt was not the killer of any women !!!!!!!!!

Feigenbaum is a prime suspect for JTR and if he had been gay he would not have killed the Whitechapel victims because male serial killers who are gay tend to kill the same sex

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[jmenges]

I thought it might be of interest to readers if I set down a summary of my contact with the Monro family during research for The Ripper Legacy(1987). I only do so because I find it quite difficult to reconcile or recognise Colin Kendell's representation of events based on the correspondence he had with Christopher Monro (b.c.1920) which Mr Kendell included in his Jack The Ripper, The Theories and the Facts (2010). (See first post in this thread.)

My first contact with the family was in 1986 when I wrote to Commissioner James Monro's Grandson, James E Monro (b.1902) who was living in Scotland. I was referred to Elspeth Monro, Commissioner James Monro's Great Granddaughter, who had in her possession Commissioner James Monro's handwritten unpublished memoirs which she kindly sent to me for photocopying. I then met and interviewed on tape Grace Monro, (Commissioner James Monro's Grandaughter) who generously gave me her own handwritten notes of her recollections about her Grandfather.

My first contact with Christopher Monro was in November 1986 by which time I already had been sent the original handwritten memoirs of James Monro. I sent Mr Monro a presentation copy of The Ripper Legacy in September 1987. What Christopher Monro related to Colin Kendell over 20 years later, seems to have taken on board and embellished the speculation Martin (Howells) and I conjectured in our book.

Here are part of Monro's grandson's typed recollections about his grandfather which he sent me in September 1986...

"With regard to my grandfather's connection with the 'Ripper' murders I have some memories of my grandfather himself and more of relevant comments by my father but it must be remembered that I am in the middle eighties and I have difficulty in sorting out what might be called original memories from later additions from reading or other sources.

I think that there can be no doubt that my grandfather had some dealings with the matter since I recall my grandfather's reaction of horror with regard to the scene of one murder. He said there was blood even on the ceiling. There is something of a discrepancy here since my grandfather was taken off the investigation on the deliberate orders of the Commissioner, Warren. It
seems probable that my father [Charles George Monro 1868-1927] felt that his father [Commissioner James Monro 1838-1920] was describing his own experiences whereas he was repeating the report of a police officer." [KS NOTE - I THINK THERE IS A CONTEMPORARY NEWSPAPER REPORT OF MONRO GOING TO KELLY'S SCENE OF
CRIME?]

"I clearly recall my grandfather saying "The Ripper was never caught, but he should have been." My father clearly understood that Warren had deliberately interfered with the police procedure and it is clear that the difference between Warren and my grandfather is at the root of the matter. My grandfather left memoirs with the regard to his
work in India and with regard to the Fenian bombing but on this point nothing and more than that I do not think that he ever fully informed my father. All I remember is a saying that Warren had
behaved abominably"

KS

[Herlock Sholmes]

Druitt was not the killer of any women !!!!!!!!!

Feigenbaum is a prime suspect for JTR and if he had been gay he would not have killed the Whitechapel victims because male serial killers who are gay tend to kill the same sex

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

You can’t prove that Druitt wasn’t the killer and no one can prove that he was the killer so the only honest position to take is to say that it’s still open. Then any individual can make their own judgment as to how likely or unlikely he is to have been the killer. What you are doing is stating that your own opinion is a fact which is rather a strange approach for a former police officer.

Feigenbaum isn’t a prime suspect because we have no evidence that he was in England at the time. I’ve asked and you’ve failed to provide evidence. All that you’ve asked me to accept is some vague claim to have seen some record of him being in England in the early 1890’s (I seem to recall) If anyone else had tried to use that kind of evidence you wouldn’t have believed them Trevor and yet you expect me to believe that you found this evidence whilst writing your book but you did take and retain a copy. Not good enough I’m afraid.

I’ll repeat….you have no evidence that Druitt was gay. And yet you make that false claim…why?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I thought it might be of interest to readers if I set down a summary of my contact with the Monro family during research for The Ripper Legacy(1987). I only do so because I find it quite difficult to reconcile or recognise Colin Kendell's representation of events based on the correspondence he had with Christopher Monro (b.c.1920) which Mr Kendell included in his Jack The Ripper, The Theories and the Facts (2010). (See first post in this thread.)

My first contact with the family was in 1986 when I wrote to Commissioner James Monro's Grandson, James E Monro (b.1902) who was living in Scotland. I was referred to Elspeth Monro, Commissioner James Monro's Great Granddaughter, who had in her possession Commissioner James Monro's handwritten unpublished memoirs which she kindly sent to me for photocopying. I then met and interviewed on tape Grace Monro, (Commissioner James Monro's Grandaughter) who generously gave me her own handwritten notes of her recollections about her Grandfather.

My first contact with Christopher Monro was in November 1986 by which time I already had been sent the original handwritten memoirs of James Monro. I sent Mr Monro a presentation copy of The Ripper Legacy in September 1987. What Christopher Monro related to Colin Kendell over 20 years later, seems to have taken on board and embellished the speculation Martin (Howells) and I conjectured in our book.

Here are part of Monro's grandson's typed recollections about his grandfather which he sent me in September 1986...

"With regard to my grandfather's connection with the 'Ripper' murders I have some memories of my grandfather himself and more of relevant comments by my father but it must be remembered that I am in the middle eighties and I have difficulty in sorting out what might be called original memories from later additions from reading or other sources.

I think that there can be no doubt that my grandfather had some dealings with the matter since I recall my grandfather's reaction of horror with regard to the scene of one murder. He said there was blood even on the ceiling. There is something of a discrepancy here since my grandfather was taken off the investigation on the deliberate orders of the Commissioner, Warren. It
seems probable that my father [Charles George Monro 1868-1927] felt that his father [Commissioner James Monro 1838-1920] was describing his own experiences whereas he was repeating the report of a police officer." [KS NOTE - I THINK THERE IS A CONTEMPORARY NEWSPAPER REPORT OF MONRO GOING TO KELLY'S SCENE OF
CRIME?]

"I clearly recall my grandfather saying "The Ripper was never caught, but he should have been." My father clearly understood that Warren had deliberately interfered with the police procedure and it is clear that the difference between Warren and my grandfather is at the root of the matter. My grandfather left memoirs with the regard to his
work in India and with regard to the Fenian bombing but on this point nothing and more than that I do not think that he ever fully informed my father. All I remember is a saying that Warren had
behaved abominably"

KS

Thanks to Keith for clearing that up.

[c.d.]

Druitt was not the killer of any women !!!!!!!!!

Feigenbaum is a prime suspect for JTR and if he had been gay he would not have killed the Whitechapel victims because male serial killers who are gay tend to kill the same sex

The key word here is "tend."

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Druitt was not the killer of any women !!!!!!!!!

Feigenbaum is a prime suspect for JTR and if he had been gay he would not have killed the Whitechapel victims because male serial killers who are gay tend to kill the same sex

The key word here is "tend."

c.d.

Exactly c.d.

We have “John Wayne Glover, known as the "Granny Killer" in Australia, who was a gay man that killed elderly women. These women reportedly reminded him of his mother and mother-in-law, toward whom he felt hostility.”

Henry Lee Lucas killed women and he was having a gay relationship with Otis Toole.

So that’s the ‘gay men only kill women’ theory biting the dust straight away. Then we can add that Druitt being gay is a baseless assumption of course….not that this matters to some of course.

[rjpalmer]

We have “[I]John Wayne Glover, known as the "Granny Killer" in Australia, who was a gay man that killed elderly women. These women reportedly reminded him of his mother and mother-in-law, toward whom he felt hostility.”

I don't know where you came up with this idea, Mike.

John Wayne Glover was not homosexual. He was married, had kids, and was having an affair with a woman. I've read three books on Glover and there was not a whisper about him being homosexual.

Is this another case of AI coming up with bogus results? Is AI confusing John Wayne Glover with John Wayne Gacy who was homosexual????

[jmenges]

There is no evidence that Druitt was gay or a pedophile, and then to suggest that being attracted to young boys (a sexual orientation based on age) is synonymous with being a homosexual (sexual orientation based on gender) shows such a deep and dangerous level of ignorance that I’m tempted to put a stop to this line of discussion. Tread carefully.

JM

[rjpalmer]

Is AI confusing John Wayne Glover with John Wayne Gacy who was homosexual????

Gacy is actually an interesting case because he shows that the sexuality of multiple murders can be convoluted, complex, and not 'linear.'

He was twice married to women and had two children. He was outwardly heterosexual, yet he killed male youths--thus he is called 'homosexual' by police & psychologists.

Yet this strikes me as rather shallow & circular. If the otherwise and outwardly heterosexual Gacy could kill males, why couldn't an outwardly and otherwise gay male kill women?

I think it's a rather dangerous notion to think that the sexuality of someone as extreme as 'the Ripper' would adhere to any simplistic rules.

Any I say this even though I agree with JM that there is not a jot of credible evidence that Druitt was homosexual, nor does homosexuality in any way imply that he would interfere with young people.

RP

[Herlock Sholmes]

I don't know where you came up with this idea, Mike.

John Wayne Glover was not homosexual. He was married, had kids, and was having an affair with a woman. I've read three books on Glover and there was not a whisper about him being homosexual.

Is this another case of AI coming up with bogus results? Is AI confusing John Wayne Glover with John Wayne Gacy who was homosexual????

Looks like it Roger. I should have checked.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jonathan,

I would be interested to learn how James Monro's eldest grandson, James Ernest Monro, was living in Edinburgh in 1986, when he was born and died in India, in 1902.

Regards,

Simon

[jmenges]

He was twice married to women and had two children. He was outwardly heterosexual, yet he killed male youths--thus he is called 'homosexual' by police & psychologists.

RP

This basically illustrates what I was saying. The old-fashioned police labeling (which Trevor proves is still alive today) of ‘homosexual’ onto someone who has sadistic sexual desires that target adolescents of a certain gender.

JM

[Lewis C]

fascinating thread. there seems to be an awful lot of talk by alot of different people at the time about druitt. But does it all just originate from MM? Is there any independent mention of druitt being the ripper that dosnt come from MM?

Hi Abby,

In the quote from Farquharson that Herlock posted, I do think that more likely than not, Farquharson was talking about Druitt. However, I wonder whether Farquharson was the source of what Mac believed. If so, we would still have the question of whether the ideas of the time originated from a single source.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Jonathan,

I would be interested to learn how James Monro's eldest grandson, James Ernest Monro, was living in Edinburgh in 1986, when he was born and died in India, in 1902.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

If Commissioner Monro's grandson, James Ernest Monro, died in 1902, who do you think the James Ernest Monro was who died in Scotland in 1992 aged 89 (and was thus potentially born in 1902) with mother's maiden name being Rattray, as shown on the attached screenshot from Scotland's People, the official Scottish Government records website?

By way of reminder, Commissioner Monro's son, Charles George Monro, married Eliza Stuart Rattray in 1893.