Druitt and Monro

[rjpalmer]

The only "source" that Macnaughton was a friend of Colonel Vivian Majendie, appears to be Hainsworth, so not a reliable source.

Hmmm. Is it possible that you've again jumped to a conclusion and are making a rather ugly insinuation without even having read Macnaghten's memoirs?

It's right there in Days of My Years, page 80.



In the 1890s, anarchists and nihilist were placing bombs around London and Macnaghten and Majendie worked together on a number of cases at the administrative level. They were also both members of the National Sporting Club.

They clearly knew each other and considered each other friends.

So, who is being unreliable?

[The Rookie Detective]

Monty’s cousin Reverend Charles Druitt (1848-1900) married Isabel Majendie Hill in 1888. She was the daughter of a step-cousin of Colonel Sir Vivian Majendie.

So Majendie was... Druitt's cousins wife's father's step-cousin...

And he was the primary source used by MM?

Hmmm...


I think we're done here.


Lechcross anyone?!

[Fiver]

Mac would have gone straight to the Druitt family to whom, after all, his close friend, Colonel Vivian Majendie was related by a marriage - and would have done so discreetly and reassuringly. He implies as much in his memoir chapter "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper" (1914); the de-facto third version of his 1894 report.

Lets look at Macnaghten's memoir.

"There can be no doubt that in the room at Miller's Court the madman found ample scope for the opportunities he had all along been seeking, and the probability is that, after his awful glut on this occasion, his brain gave way altogether and he committed suicide ; otherwise the murders would not have ceased. The man, of course, was a sexual maniac, but such madness takes Protean forms, as will be shown later on in other cases. Sexual murders are the most difficult of all for police to bring home to the perpetrators, for motives there are none ; only a lust for blood, and in many cases a hatred of woman as woman. Not infrequently the maniac possesses a diseased body, and this was probably so in the case of the Whitechapel murderer. Many residents in the East End (and some in the West!) came under suspicion of police, but though several persons were detained, no one was ever charged with these offences.

Only last autumn I was very much interested in a book entitled The Lodger, which set forth in vivid colours what the Whitechapel murderer's life might have been while dwelling in London lodgings. The talented authoress portrayed him as a religious enthusiast, gone crazy over the belief that he was predestined to slaughter a certain number of unfortunate women, and that he had been confined in a criminal lunatic asylum and had escaped therefrom. I do not think that there was anything of religious mania about the real Simon Pure, nor do I believe that he had ever been detained in an asylum, nor lived in lodgings. I incline to the belief that the individual who held up London in terror resided with his own people ; that he absented himself from home at certain times, and that he committed suicide on or about the 10th of November 1888, after he had knocked out a Commissioner of Police and very nearly settled the hash of one of Her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State."

* "Not infrequently the maniac possesses a diseased body, and this was probably so in the case of the Whitechapel murderer." There is no evidence that Montague Druitt had any health problems.

* "I incline to the belief that the individual who held up London in terror resided with his own people". Montague Druitt lived at Valentine's School, so this does nit match him.

* "he committed suicide on or about the 10th of November 1888".
If Macnaughten had read the inquest records, he would know that date was wrong.
If Macnaughten had talked to any member of Montague Druitt's family, he would know that date was wrong.
If Macnaughten had read Druitt's court records as a barrister, he would know that date was wrong.
If Macnaughten had talked to anyone at Valentine's school, he would know that date was wrong.
If Macnaughten had contacted Druitt's cricket club, he would know that date was wrong.

Also, where in any of "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper" does Macnaghten imply his source was Colonel Vivian Majendie?

[Herlock Sholmes]

So Majendie was... Druitt's cousins wife's father's step-cousin...

And he was the primary source used by MM?

Hmmm...


I think we're done here.


Lechcross anyone?!

What difference does it make how closely related they are?

[Fiver]

That "Canonical" 5 term also being wrong.

But it's okay, as they were only prostitutes right?

"The victims, without exception, belonged to the lowest dregs of female humanity...." - Sir Melville Macnaghten, Days of My Years

[The Rookie Detective]

"The victims, without exception, belonged to the lowest dregs of female humanity...." - Sir Melville Macnaghten, Days of My Years

MM seemingly had his own spade with which to dig his own grave.

That quote tells us all we need to know about what he thought about those poor women.

He wasn't interested in justice, he was more focused on self-promotion by lying about what he knew and had achieved.

Anderson was the same.

Shameful police officials and an indication of why the case was never going to be solved from day one.

The Ripper must have known he had open season on those women.

[jmenges]

Keith Skinner would like to contribute the following:

Druitt's inquest reports in the newspapers are frustrating because of the conflicting variables The question for me which still resonates is who was the last person to see him alive on December 3rd 1888 because that does tend to suggest he made it back from Hammersmith to Charing Cross on December 1st 1888 even though he still had the return half of his ticket? (Martin Howells and I seem to have missed that point 36 years ago which tends to seriously undermine our theory Druitt was murdered on December 1st 1888 in Chiswick!)

Where was Druitt living? Neil Rhind a long time ago pointed out that as Druitt had a first-class season pass from Blackheath to London, then Blackheath Station was where he boarded the train. He would only have required a return ticket for the Charing Cross to Hammersmith part of the journey. If Druitt was living at Eliot Place when Valentine dismissed him on, we believe, November 30th 1888, might he not still be living there? (The 1881 Census records him as being present). Incidentally, I think in Uncensored you write that November 30th 1888 was the last day of term? Is there a source for that because it seems quite early to break up for Christmas?

Druitt's rooms were searched when William Druitt went to London to make inquiries about his missing brother (post December 11th 1888) and I'm assuming these rooms were at the school in Eliot Place, Blackheath? This is where the note was found addressed to him. "Since Friday..." was perhaps a reference to Friday November 30th 1888, the date of his dismissal and could have been written on Monday December 3rd 1888 - ostensibly the last day he was seen alive?

KS via JM

[Doctored Whatsit]

Keith Skinner would like to contribute the following:

Druitt's inquest reports in the newspapers are frustrating because of the conflicting variables The question for me which still resonates is who was the last person to see him alive on December 3rd 1888 because that does tend to suggest he made it back from Hammersmith to Charing Cross on December 1st 1888 even though he still had the return half of his ticket? (Martin Howells and I seem to have missed that point 36 years ago which tends to seriously undermine our theory Druitt was murdered on December 1st 1888 in Chiswick!)

Where was Druitt living? Neil Rhind a long time ago pointed out that as Druitt had a first-class season pass from Blackheath to London, then Blackheath Station was where he boarded the train. He would only have required a return ticket for the Charing Cross to Hammersmith part of the journey. If Druitt was living at Eliot Place when Valentine dismissed him on, we believe, November 30th 1888, might he not still be living there? (The 1881 Census records him as being present). Incidentally, I think in Uncensored you write that November 30th 1888 was the last day of term? Is there a source for that because it seems quite early to break up for Christmas?

Druitt's rooms were searched when William Druitt went to London to make inquiries about his missing brother (post December 11th 1888) and I'm assuming these rooms were at the school in Eliot Place, Blackheath? This is where the note was found addressed to him. "Since Friday..." was perhaps a reference to Friday November 30th 1888, the date of his dismissal and could have been written on Monday December 3rd 1888 - ostensibly the last day he was seen alive?

KS via JM

I also have seen the 3rd December date quoted, but I thought it was just someone's estimation of the last time he was seen. It is totally bewildering to think that he got back home on Dec 1st without using his railway ticket! How, and why? Although, I concede if he was sacked on Nov 30th, we cannot be sure where he lived on 1st Dec.

[jmenges]

Incidentally, I think in Uncensored you write that November 30th 1888 was the last day of term? Is there a source for that because it seems quite early to break up for Christmas?

KS via JM

By “you”, Keith means Paul Begg.

JM

[Fiver]

Monty’s cousin Reverend Charles Druitt (1848-1900) married Isabel Majendie Hill in 1888. She was the daughter of a step-cousin of Colonel Sir Vivian Majendie.

Thank you.

Lets connect those dots. On 15 September, 1888, Montague Druitt's cousin, Charles Druitt married Isabel Majendie Hill. Isabel's maternal grandmother, Susannah Maria Ward, married as her second husband, George John Majendie. George's nephew was Vivian Majende.

So Montague Druitt was Colonel Sir Vivian Majendie's deceased uncle's step-granddaughter's husband's cousin.

I think we can safely rule out Vivian Majendie out as a source for Macnaughton.

[Fiver]

Hmmm. Is it possible that you've again jumped to a conclusion and are making a rather ugly insinuation without even having read Macnaghten's memoirs?

So, who is being unreliable?

Thank you for the source. As to who is unreliable, that is Hainsworth.

Hainsworth has said "A nephew of the late, famous Dr Robert Druitt was arrested in 1887 for allegedly trying to stab an East End "fallen woman". " That is not an interpretation, that is Hainsworth claiming something that is provably false.

At best, that shows poor scholarship on Hainsworth's part.

[Fiver]

So Majendie was... Druitt's cousins wife's father's step-cousin...

Majendie was Druitt's cousin's wife's grandmother's second husband's nephew.

[Fiver]

What difference does it make how closely related they are?

Hainsworth appears to be claiming that Majendie was Macnaughton's source about Druitt. The tenuous connection between Majendie and Druitt makes that unlikely.

[Fiver]

But we don't know for certain whether a member or members of the Druitt family ever spoke directly to the police, correct? Mac seems to imply that they were the original source but that doesn't eliminate a family friend or acquaintance being the one who actually passed the information directly to the police. And if that were the case, it is possible that the original suspicion of the family was taken out of context.

c.d.

Taken out of context or perhaps the family's suspicions were manufactured, or at least amplified, by a malicious gossip. For that matter, Druitt getting sacked may have been due to gossip, not any actual misdeeds.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thank you.

Lets connect those dots. On 15 September, 1888, Montague Druitt's cousin, Charles Druitt married Isabel Majendie Hill. Isabel's maternal grandmother, Susannah Maria Ward, married as her second husband, George John Majendie. George's nephew was Vivian Majende.

So Montague Druitt was Colonel Sir Vivian Majendie's deceased uncle's step-granddaughter's husband's cousin.

I think we can safely rule out Vivian Majendie out as a source for Macnaughton.

Why? Do only close family members talk?