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Where was Montague John Druitt 1 December 1888

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  • Where was Montague John Druitt 1 December 1888

    I have just been re-reading some news accounts on Montie and I realised that we presume that he drowned on 1 December 1888.

    However the Times (London) Thursday, 29 November 1888 reports on what we have always thought may have been his last Court case.

    But was it.

    This was what is called a stated case. I don't want to boar anyone with a law lecture but a "Stated Case" is a sort of mini-appeal on a discrete issue, in this case the issue appears to be if the two tenants could both claim rights as they were joint tenants of the property. We know that Monte prevailed in the case, and that seems to be where we have all left it. The original case was heard by a Barrister, I imagine sitting as what is referred to in the United Kingdom as a Recorder dealing with more basic cases.

    However there is more, the last sentence of the Times report states:

    The Case sent to be amended, will, his Lordship said, be taken on Saturday.

    This simply means that having decided that both Mr Hakes, being eligible could now have their substantive applications heard, and they would be heard on Saturday 1 December. Back before the person who had originally heard it, as a general rule.

    Now it is not always the case that the same Barrister appears on both the original hearing and the "appeal". However if it isn't it usually because either the Barrister in the original hearing got things so wrong that they want someone else, or he is unavailable "Jammed", or because they want a more senior Barrister for the appeal, sometimes a QC. But if it is not to get more senior counsel then almost invariably the Barrister who does the appeal will also do the rehearing, regardless who dd the original. I believe we can rule out the senior Barrister theory here because Montie was far far from being anything other than a junior.

    That then brings us to the question of the 50 pound cheque he had on hm when his body was found in the Thames. In the 1880's Barrister's briefs arrived in chambers with the cheque for the retainer attached, this retainer consisted of an agreed amount [usually agreed between the Barrister's Clerk and the instructing Solicitor] for the costs to prepare the case and the fee for the first day, or expected number of days, of hearing. If he hadn't appeared on the orginal hearing he would have got a brief fee for the stated case and a refresher for 1 December.

    When hearings go longer than expected it was normal for the "refresher" [the fee for the additional day] to be paid on the day.

    So it is likely that Druitt would have received a brief fee when the brief arrived. A further brief fee when he was briefed to appear on the appeal, or stated case and then when on 1 December the matter came on for rehearing he would have been paid a refresher. In 1888 a daily fee for junior counsel would be between about 25 and 200 pounds depending on the experience of the Barrister and the complexity of the case.

    I admit to a real lack of knowledge as to travel in 1888 England but I presume the rehearing would have taken place back in Christchurch, Hampshire, does this at all explain the ticket Druitt had on him from Hammersmith to Charing Cross? Though I do note that the ticket is described as a "Second-half return ticket" does that mean it was a season ticket for the second half of the year, or is it the return half of the ticket?
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

  • #2
    I don't know. I thought that case finished on November 21st?

    Based on other primary sources the big cheque was from his brother's firm because the first reports in the regional press talk about trying to contact his brother at Bournemouth, while yet another says he had no papers on his body.

    The cheque being from William's firm would reconcile those two bits of seemingly contradictory data.

    Comment


    • #3
      Montie had had a good week.

      On 30 November the times reported that Montie had another win in an appeal on the Tuesday by my calculations 27 November Druitt also had a win before Lord Coleridge, Mr. Justice Hawkins, and Mr. Justice Manisty, so two appeal type wins in a week after a little over three years at the Bar, and this the man that some call a struggling Barrister, oh what a failure he wasn't.
      G U T

      There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

      Comment


      • #4
        G'Day Jonathan

        Not sure what you don't know.

        It is clear that the case reported on 29 November was stood over to 1 December.

        If you are saying that the stated case was 21 November then the rehearing would have been on 24 November, but why would the Times publish the Stated case on 29 November, in some detail and not mention the result of the hearing on 24 November? It just doesn't add up.
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi GUT,

          There is an alternative answer regarding "the case to be amended".

          To understand more fully one has to read the whole of the cases that Lord Coleridge took on that day. These are included on the same page as the Druit report.

          Lord Coleridge heard four cases that day, the first being Smith v Chandler which ended with the following exchange between lawer and judge.

          "MR ROMPAS informed the Court that the next case in which he had to argue raised a similar question, and perhaps the Court would hear it argued before deciding the present.
          LORD COLERIDGE assented.
          No counsel appeared on the other side, and it was remitted for amendment accordingly, and the next case was taken"

          I therefore think that the case to be amended was Smith v Chandler.
          Also note that Druit's case was number four.

          Rgds
          John
          Last edited by John Savage; 02-21-2014, 06:43 AM. Reason: error

          Comment


          • #6
            Druitt's last days

            Hi,

            The latest date we can categorically state that Druitt was alive is Tuesday November 27.

            The unused portion of a rail ticket found on his body and dated Saturday December 1 implies that he was still alive on that day and suggests that this was the date of his suicide.

            The reason for suicide of course will never be known.

            Maybe dismissal on Friday 30th November.

            But he was still functioning well on the 27th November in court. Was it something about the court case?

            A mystery!

            Best

            Nick

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nick Spring View Post
              Hi,

              The latest date we can categorically state that Druitt was alive is Tuesday November 27.

              The unused portion of a rail ticket found on his body and dated Saturday December 1 implies that he was still alive on that day and suggests that this was the date of his suicide.

              The reason for suicide of course will never be known.

              Maybe dismissal on Friday 30th November.

              But he was still functioning well on the 27th November in court. Was it something about the court case?

              A mystery!

              Best

              Nick
              Hi Nick,we only have william Druitts word for it that he was dismissed from school if he had been up to no good at school yes they would sack him but would they pay him as well.
              Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

              Comment


              • #8
                But we do know from other sources why Montague Druitt took his own life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  G'Day John

                  Originally posted by John Savage View Post
                  Hi GUT,

                  There is an alternative answer regarding "the case to be amended".

                  To understand more fully one has to read the whole of the cases that Lord Coleridge took on that day. These are included on the same page as the Druit report.

                  Lord Coleridge heard four cases that day, the first being Smith v Chandler which ended with the following exchange between lawer and judge.

                  "MR ROMPAS informed the Court that the next case in which he had to argue raised a similar question, and perhaps the Court would hear it argued before deciding the present.
                  LORD COLERIDGE assented.
                  No counsel appeared on the other side, and it was remitted for amendment accordingly, and the next case was taken"

                  I therefore think that the case to be amended was Smith v Chandler.
                  Also note that Druit's case was number four.

                  Rgds
                  John
                  But by the very nature of a stated case if the specific issue is overturned t goes back for hearing on the proper facts as decided.

                  Of course I wouldn't rule out that the authority loosing on this issue "pulled the plug". However it is more likely than not that someone had to appear to have judgement entered.
                  G U T

                  There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For example ...

                    Washington Post (Washington, D.C.)

                    4 June 1913

                    FATE OF JACK THE RIPPER

                    Retiring British Official Says Once Famous Criminal Committed Suicide
                    London Cable to the New York Tribune

                    The fact that "Jack the Ripper", the man who terrorized the East End of London by the murder of seven women during 1888, committed suicide, is now confirmed by Sir Melville Macnaughten, head of the criminal investigation department of Scotland Yard, who retired on Saturday after 24 years' service.

                    Sir Melville says:

                    "It is one of the greatest regrets of my life that "Jack the Ripper" committed suicide six months before I joined the force.

                    That remarkable man was one of the most fascinating of criminals. Of course, he was a maniac, but I have a very clear idea as to who he was and how he committed suicide, but that, with other secrets, will never be revealed by me."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      G'Day Nick Spring

                      The latest date we can categorically state that Druitt was alive is Tuesday November 27
                      So how did a train ticket dated 1 December get in his pockett?

                      Also his probate papers, which I have not read in detail yet, it's on the to do list, says he was seen alive on 3 December.
                      G U T

                      There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Montague bought the ticket on the Saturday and did not use the return as that is when he coolly and methodically went to Chiswick and drowned himself.

                        I believe his grave says he killed himself on the 4th, suggesting that the older brother was unsure of when exactly he did this.

                        Druitt tried to weight his own body so that he would always be missing, possibly abroad (this echoes Littlechild writing to Sims in 1913 about Tumblety).

                        If the body did surface his death would only be a regional sensation, and not reported in London--which it wasn't.

                        We know from Macnaghten and Sims that William Druitt believed, rightly or wrongly, that his brother was 'Jack the Ripper' and, since his sibling was deceased, he moved swiftly and decisively to conceal this catastrophe for the family from the authorities and the public.

                        It is possible that George Valentine did not even know that Montague had been found, and that there had even been an inquest. All he may have known was that Montie had mysteriously gone abroad--inevitably triggering his dismissal--and the next thing he knew the older brother arrived in a state of alarm and was shown his younger sibling's belongings still at the school, and the next a letter a few days later from the same brother explained that Montie had killed himself due to being temporarily insane, as had been judged by a coroner in Chiswick.

                        Which is how the unsolved mystery of the Ripper would have stayed except that the family secret leaked in Dorset a little over two years later ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          G'Day Jonathan

                          With all respect we do not know William suspected him, we know that Macnaghten says that he was suspected by his family, but which member/s is a total unknown. IF he confessed to Rev Charles he may have been the only family member who suspected Montie as Jack.
                          G U T

                          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Case sent to be amended, will, his Lordship said, be taken on Saturday.

                            Hi Gut,

                            I don't want to pour water on your theory, in fact I think it is a very interesting idea.

                            However having checked The Times through November and December 1888 I can find no mention of this case reappearing in the High Court in London. It may, as you say, have gone back to Christchurch and I think only a search of local records or newspapers would prove the matter.

                            As I said earlier, only by reading the full report of the days proceedings does it become clear [to me at least] that the case to be amended was Smith v Chandler.

                            On the day Lord Coleridge and Mr Justice Manasty were hearing four cases concerning appeals on matters relating to the registration of voters; case number 2 was Smith v Chandler and Druit was number 4. After giving his verdict in the Druit case Lord Coleridge added that "The Case sent to be amended, will,be taken on Saturday". Lord Coleridge took no more cases that day, so I think it reasonable to suppose that this comment was intended to inform the Court when he would resume Smith v Chandler.

                            The report of the Druit case appears to be a dispute between two ratepayers, but remember in those days you had to be a ratepayer in order to vote.

                            A further check of The Times shows that Smith v Chandler was listed for hearing in the editions of Friday November 30th. and Saturday December 1st. A full report of Smith v Chandler is given in The Times on Tuesday December 4th. Confusingly this states that the case was heard on Friday.

                            I rest my case m'lud!

                            Rgds
                            John

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Gut

                              You mention that you are going to have a look at the probate for Monty. He did not leave a will so Letters of Administration were granted to his brother William. I am afraid these letters never really tell us much and only give the same information as can be found in the National Probate Calendars, here is the entry for Monty:

                              Druit Montague John
                              Personal Estate £2,600 2s 0d.
                              24 July administration of the personal estate of Montague John Druitt late of 9 Kings-Bench-Walk Temple in the City of London barrister at law a bachelor who was last seen alive on 3 December 1888 and was found drowned in the River Thames at Chiswick in the County of Middlesex on 31 December 1888 was granted at the Principal Registry to William Harvey Druitt of Bournemouth in the County of Southampton gentleman the brother.

                              We had a discussion of this over on the other site a while back which might be of interest to you.

                              Rgds
                              John

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