Druitt's personality

[pinkmoon]

I wouldn't say no

[Wickerman]

By the same token, there is no hint in his behaviour that he had been roaming the streets of London slicing up women either.

True, but that applies to all the suspects, so that argument cancels itself.

If his family could not even detect in him a hint of depression (as you describe) then how on earth did they conclude he was the ripper?

We don't know that they did, only that they had suspicions.

It is not practical to suggest the current Chief Constable of the Met. should invent a story to include in a confidential report to his superiors.
Therefore, we are compelled to accept that he did receive private information on Druitt.
The question then becomes, what value can be placed on this information and, to what degree if any, did Macnaghten investigate these suspicions?
This information must have come to Mac. after Druitt's suicide, so a public investigation is not necessary. But that is not to say he did not charge a detective to investigate the matter. I'm inclined to think he would not take the suspicions of the family seriously until he looked into the matter.
So, in my opinion, this is what he did.

Everything about this charge against Druitt is circumstantial in nature, but it is sufficient for some to adopt Druitt as their suspect.
Speaking for myself, I accept we have no clue as to why Druitt was suspected, and likely will never know. We also never knew why Kozminski was suspected, likewise why Tumblety was suspected - police officials do not list their reasons why, they just state the fact.

However, my interest is that he is listed as a suspect, and by the current, active, Chief Constable of the Met. in an official report. Therefore, the best researchers can do today is to accept the fact, and look into Druitt's background to see if anything in his busy schedule could exclude him from being a suspect - so far this endeavor has failed.
This has been done with Ostrog, apparently Mac. was not aware that Ostrog was in Paris during the murders, so there may be some detail that Mac. was not aware of that might cancel Druitt out too.

The advantage we have with Druitt, when compared with Kozminski & Tumblety is, that the latter two were only named years later, while Druitt was named by the Chief Constable while still on active duty. Therefore, Mac. is not relying on potentially distorted recollections.

So, in all honesty I cannot convince myself that Druitt is a legitimate suspect due to the fact we have been given no reasons why, yet at the same time I accept what Macnaghten writes, so I look for anything in Druitt's life to count him out.
Nothing has yet surfaced.

[curious]

So, in all honesty I cannot convince myself that Druitt is a legitimate suspect due to the fact we have been given no reasons why, yet at the same time I accept what Macnaghten writes, so I look for anything in Druitt's life to count him out.
Nothing has yet surfaced.

And there is the dilemma that I suspect bothers many of us.

The known information on Druitt doesn't "feel" right (for want of a better word), but then there is Macnaghten who can not be ignored . . . .

as I said dilemma.

curious

[pinkmoon]

And there is the dilemma of what I suspect is a lot of us.

The known information on Druitt doesn't "feel" right for want of a better word, but then there is Macnaghten who can not be ignored . . . .

as I said dilemma.

curious

We have to take macnaughtons rank into consideration here if this came from a lower ranking officer we could dissmiss it a lot easier.Also with macnaughton not been involved in ripper hunt he didn't have to try and safe face by saying he knew who ripper was.

[Stephen Thomas]

Macnaghten was still on the job when he wrote this Memorandum

And apparently Jonathan has a photo of MM's beautiful wife.

[Graham]

And apparently Jonathan has a photo of MM's beautiful wife.

If you look up "Images for MM", there's a photo of who I guess is Mac's wife as a bride being helped from her carriage on her wedding-day. Unfortunately these "Images For" things don't carry any identification, at least as far as I'm able to make out.

The book about London murders down the centuries, which I recently read and mentioned in a previous post, is called "Capital Crimes" by Max Decharne, who uses a couple of quotes from Mac's memoirs, and comments that he, Mac, was not always as reliable as you might expect a high-ranking copper to be. No big deal, and probably not worth mentioning.

Graham

[Wickerman]

The book about London murders down the centuries, which I recently read and mentioned in a previous post, is called "Capital Crimes" by Max Decharne, who uses a couple of quotes from Mac's memoirs,....

Thankyou for at least clarifying the fact that it was his 'memoirs' which were considered unreliable, as opposed to any contemporary writings. The same situation exists with the aforesaid Anderson & Smith.

[Graham]

My pleasure, Wickerman. Decharne's book is worth a read, if only to understand how murder as a crime was treated by authority down the centuries.

Incidentally, I believe that Mac's successor Basil Thompson was a contemporary of Montague Druitt at Oxford University. I wonder if they actually knew one another?

Graham

[Lechmere]

Why would Macnaghten mention Druitt in 1894 and does that of itself give Druitt added credence as suspect?

Druitt conforms too closely the Jekyll and Hyde stereotype for comfort– rather too closely in the fictional form by which he was regularly described, not least by Macnaghten. Macnaghten was obsessed with his own childhood so I suspect fictional stories and fantasy solutions would appeal to him.
Prior to his appointment in 1889 (just 5 years before) Macnaghten had absolutely no experience to recommend him for the post.
Remember Ostrog was given top billing by Macnaghten in 1894 as well.

For this theory to hold water Macnaghten was engaged in a complex conspiracy with the north country Vicar, a member or members of the Druitt family, Farquharson, and later Sims – to mislead Her Majesty’s Government and the Metropolitan Police – his employer.
Macnaghten inveigled them either to keep quiet or to release misleading information about the Ripper case, over about ten years.
Why?
Variously, and with different weights, to protect the reputation of Scotland Yard, the reputation of the Conservative Government or Party and the reputation of the Druitt family.
For this conspiracy to work, it is by no means essential for Macnaghten and the Druitt family to be correct in their assessment of Montague Druitt’s guilt. They could have been horribly mistaken.

Any takers?

[pinkmoon]

Why would Macnaghten mention Druitt in 1894 and does that of itself give Druitt added credence as suspect?

Druitt conforms too closely the Jekyll and Hyde stereotype for comfort– rather too closely in the fictional form by which he was regularly described, not least by Macnaghten. Macnaghten was obsessed with his own childhood so I suspect fictional stories and fantasy solutions would appeal to him.
Prior to his appointment in 1889 (just 5 years before) Macnaghten had absolutely no experience to recommend him for the post.
Remember Ostrog was given top billing by Macnaghten in 1894 as well.

For this theory to hold water Macnaghten was engaged in a complex conspiracy with the north country Vicar, a member or members of the Druitt family, Farquharson, and later Sims – to mislead Her Majesty’s Government and the Metropolitan Police – his employer.
Macnaghten inveigled them either to keep quiet or to release misleading information about the Ripper case, over about ten years.
Why?
Variously, and with different weights, to protect the reputation of Scotland Yard, the reputation of the Conservative Government or Party and the reputation of the Druitt family.
For this conspiracy to work, it is by no means essential for Macnaghten and the Druitt family to be correct in their assessment of Montague Druitt’s guilt. They could have been horribly mistaken.

Any takers?

Macnaughtons been told something by some one quite obvious.Now the person who's the source of this "private information" for what ever reason can't be identified so that's why he fudges it and makes out that druitts family suspected him and not the police.So could it be from a police officer who worked on the ripper case ?.I have no facts to back this up it is purely guess work so don't all get excited

[Jonathan H]

To Lechemere

I agree. They could have all been horribly mistaken.

I think that more of a mystery is being made here then there really is, not that we have anything like the complete story that I believe Macnaghten did (and he alone was the investigating police officer and nobody else. In his memoirs he was frequently alone, eg. trying to find the harlot witness to get Adolf Beck off, and claims he found her. She mistook him for a potential client).

Druitt confessed ('North Country Vicar, 1899; Sims 1902, 1903, 1907, 1910, 1917), he had no alibi for the murdres (Sims, 1902) blood-stained clothes were found ('West of England' MP article, 1891) and the family and a police chief, who were there, took all this seriously. They could not get him off even though there could never be a trial.

In 1907, Sims writes that the Russian doctor was in an asylum arbaod. This shows, to me, that Macnaghten was well aware that Ostrog was in a French asylum at the time of the murders. Furthermore, Mac was at Eton, as an Old Boy, the day Ostrog stole some expensive objects. We have a primary source of Mac writing to an English asylum Ostrog was in--keeping lcose tabs on the defiler of his bloeved alma mater.

Macnaghten was well acquainted with the Russian con man, and knew that he was neither insane nor medically trained.

Therefore when Mac writes that this man was a 'doctor' for real, when he was no such thing, this has as much validity as Druitt being a medical man.

Whereas, for file, Macnaghten could not bring himself to confirm Druitt as a doctor, just that it was a matter of hearsay and therefore could be wrong.

Consider how silly that is? You might not know the true credentials of a foreigner, but an English man? Rumoured to be a physician?

[Stephen Thomas]

If you look up "Images for MM", there's a photo of who I guess is Mac's wife as a bride being helped from her carriage on her wedding-day. Unfortunately these "Images For" things don't carry any identification, at least as far as I'm able to make out.

Many thanks for that, Graham.

Perhaps the lady is one of MM's daughters.

[Limehouse]

Why would Macnaghten mention Druitt in 1894 and does that of itself give Druitt added credence as suspect?

Druitt conforms too closely the Jekyll and Hyde stereotype for comfort– rather too closely in the fictional form by which he was regularly described, not least by Macnaghten. Macnaghten was obsessed with his own childhood so I suspect fictional stories and fantasy solutions would appeal to him.
Prior to his appointment in 1889 (just 5 years before) Macnaghten had absolutely no experience to recommend him for the post.
Remember Ostrog was given top billing by Macnaghten in 1894 as well.

For this theory to hold water Macnaghten was engaged in a complex conspiracy with the north country Vicar, a member or members of the Druitt family, Farquharson, and later Sims – to mislead Her Majesty’s Government and the Metropolitan Police – his employer.
Macnaghten inveigled them either to keep quiet or to release misleading information about the Ripper case, over about ten years.
Why?
Variously, and with different weights, to protect the reputation of Scotland Yard, the reputation of the Conservative Government or Party and the reputation of the Druitt family.
For this conspiracy to work, it is by no means essential for Macnaghten and the Druitt family to be correct in their assessment of Montague Druitt’s guilt. They could have been horribly mistaken.

Any takers?

I agree entirely. Farquharson didn't even realise Druitt was still alive and kicking after the date of the last murder. Macnaghten wasn't an investigating officer at the time of the killings and bases his ideas about Druitt on gossip handed down from a source he will not reveal and if they all wanted to protect Druitt, his family and the establishment they should all have kept their mouths shut and perhaps we would not even be discussing the topic today.

[Paddy]

Is there any possibility that Druitt could have involved in the Cleveland street scandal?

Pat...............................

[pinkmoon]

Would druitt have been investigated purely because of the timing of his suicide?.I don't know if the police had any sort of policy regarding suicides at the time of the murders.