druitt getting the sack

[Lechmere]

Ah Wickerman - disagreement!

Victorian society didn't hide or shrink away from 'normal' relationships between men and women.

Macnaghten described Druitt as sexually insane.
The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from this - supported by his sacking from the Boys School and subsequent suicide, supported by his failure (like Oscar Wilde about a year before) to gain election to the Oxford Union, and supported by his affected photographic portraits - is that the form of sexual insanity Macnaghten referred to was homosexuality.
That was the most prevalent form of sexual insanity as then thought.
Victorians thought that homosexuals were also woman haters, and by extension capable of any dastardly deed.

It can't be proved but it is the most logical conclusion.

[Ben]

this story about murderer killing himself after last murder also been a toff fits in nicely.

With what?

[Wickerman]

Ah Wickerman - disagreement!

Victorian society didn't hide or shrink away from 'normal' relationships between men and women.

Hi Lechmere.
We don't have much to go on concerning Druitt's private life.
And, in so far as reading about any twilight exploits with the opposite sex, newspapers were not so inclined to delve into private lives like they are today, and besides, why would Druitt draw any headlines?

Not knowing whether he liked women, or was ever seen at Madam Spanky's on a weekend is not an indication he was homosexual - we simply have no information on that score, thats all.

[andy1867]

Fascinating figure Druitt, I read or heard someone...think it might have been one of the podcasts where someone said...and I paraphrase
"His cricket performance dropped off somewhat during the period of the murders"

One game he took a 5 for, haven't got the runs against his bowling, but as the opposing side were bowled out for 61, they must have been EXTREMELY good figures Monty returned.
8th of September he took 3 wickets out of a total of 93...still not too shabby
They are the only 2 games I can find I'm afraid on Cricinfo...
I would be very interested if someone could point me in the direction of other games he played in....(Yea I know I'm always asking for stuff)
but I love Cricket and played a lot though never got figures anything like Montys...even at a far lower level...(although it was in Yorkshire so was probably akin lol)
As for his sacking, could it have been financial irregularities?
Was he not sacked from his Job as treasurer at Blackheath CC around the same time.?
I did read somewhere he went AWOL, but I played cricket for 30 years and was ALWAYS AWOL in November.
Unless of course his duties as Treasurer carried on through the close season

[RavenDarkendale]

Thanks for the shared humor, guys, it made my day. I imagine the lawyer for the defense would say something like: "My uh, (gag, cough) client here (sound of buzzing flies) was definitely (in nasal tones from holding his nose) NOT involved.

Prosecutor: "I was going to object your Honor, but (shoooooweeee) I'll pass.

Judge: (Ralphing into the waste-can) Case dismissed! Get him outta here and bury him deep!

[Robert]

An example of how an intelligent man can get a bee in his bonnet about something, with tragic consequences. In Monty's case the 'cancer' could have been his mother's mental illness which he feared would strike him too.

http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/news/10609268.Retired_Taunton_GP_killed_himself_after_wrong_self_cancer_diagnosis__inquest_heard/

[pinkmoon]

I don't think his mother's illness on its own would have pushed him to suicide maybe combined with his sacking.It would be so helpfully if we could every find out why he was sacked and WHEN.Has anyone every tried to trace Mr valentines descendents?

[Robert]

Hi Pink

The thing is, people had a strong belief in genetics in those days, and it's possible that Monty started to wonder if his mother's illness would strike him too. If he was particularly concerned about this, it's possible that he started to watch himself, to see if any signs appeared. And it's in the nature of such things that one starts to see things which aren't there.

Of course there's no evidence of this. I suggest it merely as a possibility.

[Mayerling]

Hi Pink

The thing is, people had a strong belief in genetics in those days, and it's possible that Monty started to wonder if his mother's illness would strike him too. If he was particularly concerned about this, it's possible that he started to watch himself, to see if any signs appeared. And it's in the nature of such things that one starts to see things which aren't there.

Of course there's no evidence of this. I suggest it merely as a possibility.

Hi Robert,

When talking about "genetics" in the context of 1888/1889 to 1900 or so one has to be careful. Gregor Mendel, who worked out the laws regarding genetics as we understand them, had been an abbot in a monestary in the Czech section of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He died in 1884, and his theories were just starting to be discussed (and mostly discounted). The general view in the age of the Ripper about traits still relied on passing them by chance, not by anything resembling DNA or some simpler "mathematical" code of several possibilities given previous dominent and recessive genes. Despite Darwin's work, the average person still had a faint belief regarding La Marck's theory of acquiring characteristics. The reason for this was that Darwin never never could figure the key to passing traits, just the rule that the species that survive of plant and animal were the ones whose traits were most likely to assist survival.

When Druitt is concerned about "becoming like mother" he recognized something in his behavior that resembled his mother's slow descent into madness. We don't know what that was, but it must have frightened him intensely. He did not consider some of the Druitt famiy traits (a propensity to diabitis, and frequent suicides by family members) as related by common physical points - he just noted the similarity of his behavioral quirks to his mother's.

Jeff

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

Maybe 'genetics' was the wrong word - they obviously didn't have the physical knowledge we have now. I meant that families - especially the aristocracy - did have a belief in 'blood' or whatever you want to call it. Pedigree was important to them.

[curious4]

Women's problems

Hi Robert,

When talking about "genetics" in the context of 1888/1889 to 1900 or so one has to be careful. Gregor Mendel, who worked out the laws regarding genetics as we understand them, had been an abbot in a monestary in the Czech section of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He died in 1884, and his theories were just starting to be discussed (and mostly discounted). The general view in the age of the Ripper about traits still relied on passing them by chance, not by anything resembling DNA or some simpler "mathematical" code of several possibilities given previous dominent and recessive genes. Despite Darwin's work, the average person still had a faint belief regarding La Marck's theory of acquiring characteristics. The reason for this was that Darwin never never could figure the key to passing traits, just the rule that the species that survive of plant and animal were the ones whose traits were most likely to assist survival.

When Druitt is concerned about "becoming like mother" he recognized something in his behavior that resembled his mother's slow descent into madness. We don't know what that was, but it must have frightened him intensely. He did not consider some of the Druitt famiy traits (a propensity to diabitis, and frequent suicides by family members) as related by common physical points - he just noted the similarity of his behavioral quirks to his mother's.

Jeff

Hello Jeff,

All the mental problems seem to have been on the female side of the Druitt family. And always, as far as I know, in females of "a certain age" or older. It was not unknown years ago, before Prozac and HTR, for women to become very depressed or mentally unstable during their menopausal years. Unless Druitt was very unusual, I can't see him "becoming like mother".

Best wishes,

C4

[Wickerman]

Its years since I read Skinner's book, but wasn't one suggestion that the suicide note might have been fabricated by William?
Suicide being an illegal act in those days unless, sufficient cause could be shown indicating mental instability?

[The Good Michael]

Its years since I read Skinner's book, but wasn't one suggestion that the suicide note might have been fabricated by William?
Suicide being an illegal act in those days unless, sufficient cause could be shown indicating mental instability?

I remember that argument. Maybe William dumped him in the Thames as well. I can't remember if there's a coroner's report that still exists mentioning the letter.

Mike

Mike

[Wickerman]

Ah, my mistake it was by Howells & Skinner, The Ripper Legacy, 1987.

Yes, the 'who-dun-it' conspiracy aside, I thought it worth pointing out that any modern attempts at psychological analysis into the words "becoming like mother" may be a waste if the suicide note was not genuine.

The phrase could easily have been the first excuse William could think of on the spur of the moment.

[Robert]

Worth remembering that the suicide note was reported as being "to this effect." We don't know how long the suicide note was. Apparently suicides could sometimes write quite long and rambling suicide notes. The reporter merely summarised the note in the briefest possible way.