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  • #46
    Originally posted by aspallek View Post
    Here he is on the same side as Godfrey Lushington. I presume the "MT Druitt" is a mistake for "MJ Druitt."

    Bristol Mercury and Daily Post, 18 August 1883:

    I hope the illustration comes out here - I noticed a name that nobody commented about on the Hampshire team - a "Captain Hughes - Hallett". Is it possible that this is the same Hughes - Hallett, or a relative, of the member of Parliament who was involved in the private investigation in 1888 of the West End Club that was linked to Dr. Tumblety?

    I also noticed another name that was a trifle unsettling in the Bristol Newspaper account of a game on 9 March 1886. There is a man on Monty's team named "W. Valentine". Could he be a relative of the headmaster Monty ended up working for in 1888?


    Jeff

    Comment


    • #47
      Hi Jeff,
      I noticed a reference to "The United Service Club" ---Hughes Hallett"s own club, when I was reading Sir Henry Smith"s autobiography recently-page187--he mentions it had been going downhill because of some old fashioned rules and regulations ,so Fraser his boss had asked him to take up the chairmanship of United Service Club"s Committee to help improve matters.In the light of Joe Checuti"s suspicions about Tumblety being a "temporary guest" there, I cant help wondering if the trouble the Club was in concerned " a fall in membership" and membership was eased by the committee as a result---allowing a rogue like Tumblety to be "slipped in "?
      Christy Campbell in Fenian Fire notes that there were a number of extreme right wing Tory MP'S, fiercely supportive of the Ulster Loyalists, who met regularly at some West End Club to plot against Home Rule.This could well have been the United Service Club and therefore could have included Hughes Hallet,.Where better then for Tumblety to have done a spot of "eaves dropping" than the United service Club?
      Not sure where this leaves Druitt ----unless he was mixed up in the plotting too---or on the other side,"listening in"!I often think there must have been something else about Druitt to have incurred the wrath of Macnaghten---other than suspicions he was JtR.Because if he was NOT JtR ,why pick on him? Surely not because he happened to be found drowned in January 1889?
      Best
      Norma

      Comment


      • #48
        Hi Norma,

        Everytime something turns up in this case about one of the suspects it ends up taking a weird turn in one way or another. I used to think of a psychopath killing prostitutes, then I started thinking about Jews and other Eastern Europeans in the East End of London and socialism, then I started looking at the Fenians, Lincoln's Assassination, Scotland Yard's involvement in "Parnellism and Crime", and Hughes-Hallett. This does not hide the expansion involving D'Onston and Victorian interests in the occult, the problems of forensic sciences in 1888, and Mr. Bury's marriage problems that year. And it barely touches the other stuff.

        One volume encylopedias on the Ripper - how about a "complete" as of 2007 edition as long as the old Britannicas!

        I am willing to give Macnaughten the benefit of the doubt that he did not try to posthumously screw Druitt over the latter spying on Scotland Yard and it's allies in the Home Rule matters of the late 1880s...especially in the extreme by planting Druitt on a list of names of possible suspects as the most notorious killer of the age. Particularly as few (except Scotland Yarders) would even know about the memo or the names. Macnaughten doesn't strike me as being vindictive. I've seen no negative comments like that.
        No, we're back to square one here - whatever Monty have thought or done regarding Home Rule does not fully apply (as yet) to Miller's Court and the rest - hopefully it never will. I still hope that his last actions were those of a man at the end of his tether because of his mental and physical health, his loss of employment, and not because he is being followed by the spectres of five dead prostitutes.

        Still though the connection to Hughes-Hallett (Captain or MP?) should be looked into. So should that odd "W. Valentine." Could cricket have led to the job as a schoolteacher?

        Best wishes,

        Jeff

        Comment


        • #49
          Information on "W.Valentine"...

          Hello Jeff,
          Interesting thoughts about the cul-de-sacs we Ripper researchers seem to end up down.
          I particularly liked our wayfaring into "the history of Fish and CHips"; and especially, I think Chris Scott's discovery, of that magical Norfolk paradise - "Poppylands" !! (Needless to say, neither of which have absolutely anything to do with our hunt for JTR).
          Your list was more relevant. And if I may say so, excellently summarised. I understand the dilemma entirely.
          Now: regarding one, " W.Valentine". He was Head Master George Valentine's brother. He was on the Committee at the Blackheath Hockey, Football & Cricket Club when George Valentine proposed Montague Druitt for membership thereof.John Leighton in his Druitt book at page 53 and 54 provided this information.Also he pointed out that it was a brief few months before MJD was appointed Treasurer of part of that club.
          At the time, Sir C.H.Mills, a local M.p. was President.The Captain was Frederick Prior a wealthy stockbroker and, as Leighton avers, " one of the most important figures in Blackheath history" ...
          JOHN RUFFELS.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Johnr View Post
            Hello Jeff,
            Interesting thoughts about the cul-de-sacs we Ripper researchers seem to end up down.
            I particularly liked our wayfaring into "the history of Fish and CHips"; and especially, I think Chris Scott's discovery, of that magical Norfolk paradise - "Poppylands" !! (Needless to say, neither of which have absolutely anything to do with our hunt for JTR).
            Your list was more relevant. And if I may say so, excellently summarised. I understand the dilemma entirely.
            Now: regarding one, " W.Valentine". He was Head Master George Valentine's brother. He was on the Committee at the Blackheath Hockey, Football & Cricket Club when George Valentine proposed Montague Druitt for membership thereof.John Leighton in his Druitt book at page 53 and 54 provided this information.Also he pointed out that it was a brief few months before MJD was appointed Treasurer of part of that club.
            At the time, Sir C.H.Mills, a local M.p. was President.The Captain was Frederick Prior a wealthy stockbroker and, as Leighton avers, " one of the most important figures in Blackheath history" ...
            JOHN RUFFELS.
            Hi John,

            Giving allowance for my venting some spleen there (not though a kidney), I think my point is certainly true. I keep wondering if this case expanded because of a derth of clues or an over-abundance of imagination.

            To be honest - and (if I may) to jump the thread a little (momentarily), I probably could have expanded a bit on Druitt myself if I had wanted at one point. It was about two features that struck me concerning his death by drowning (whether suicide or not) and a topic which apparently he supported in debate quite vigorously: he hated Otto von Bismarck. Being of a Liberal frame of political mind, this did not seem unusual. The Liberal Party of Gladstone (as opposed to the Tories of Disraeli and Salisbury) hated Bismarck as a war monger and opponent of Democracy. Forgetting for a moment whether or not Bismarck really fit this description I thought of his career in the 1880s.

            We tend to forget some history - recently Jennifer Pegg started a feature in THE RIPPEROLOGIST regarding the history of 1888 outside of Whitechapel.

            In considering Bismarck I did consider his career in that period. The answer was rather surprising.

            1888 has the same bearing in German History as the year 68-69 A.D. had in Roman history. The Romans had a series of "barrack room" emperors following each other upon the suicide of Nero, before Vespasian took over and restored stability. Not quite as bad in Germany (despite Monty and his fellow Liberals, Otto von Bismarck was an excellent political Chancellor, and the country was booming). However, in 1888 the old Emperor, Wilhelm I (formerly King Wilhelm IV of Prussia) died. He was 91, and so his death was expected. Bismarck was not too happy about this because the Crown Prince,
            Friedrich (better known as "Fritz") was a Liberal and an opponent of many Bismarck policies. Further, Fritz's wife was Vicki, the daughter of Queen Victoria. Liberals in Germany, England, and Europe hoped that Friedrich would dismiss Bismarck and make Germany a liberal beacon on the continent.

            Unfortunately Fritz had a health problem. Bluntly he had throat cancer. At the time there was hope that it wasn't as bad as that - a British Surgeon, Dr. Morrell MacKenzie, who was a cancer specialist (it's odd to think they had such in 1888) was sent to Berlin to save Fritz. There was an operation, and the result was Fritz's larynx was partially removed. It was thought that would be enough. MacKenzie got knighted as a result. But soon enough it became obvious that the cancer had not been stopped but had spread. Fritz was dying.

            His reign lasted about ninety days. Most people outside Germany only think there were two German Kaisers under Bismarck - Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II. Wilhelm II (now Crown Prince) was not a Liberal, and he despised his parents and their viewpoint. Towards the end of the ninety days Wilhelm basically was usurping his dying father's powers. Bismarck encouraged it.

            I once considered that if the Whitechapel Murders had not occurred what would have been the major event of 1888? It was a toss-up: the infamous
            Blizzard of '88 that hit the Northeast United States or the year of the three German Emperors. I am increasingly of the opinion it was the year of the three Emperors. Bismarck helped the young Wilhelm grab the throne, and cement his conservative policies. (Yes, I know that two years later Wilhelm kicked out Bismarck, who was too slow moving for that young hotspur, but for 1888 they saw eye to eye). It kept Germany on the road to the militarist stand it had in 1914, and helped doom Europe to the Great War.

            Now what has all this to do with Druitt and his demise?

            Well in reading up on Bismarck, I discovered a number of his opponents were
            ...shall we say short lived.

            1) My "namesake" on this board - Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria - Hungary who died (by suicide) in January 1889 at MAYERLING with his mistress Baroness Marie Vetsara. Rudolf was opposed to Bismarck's alliance of the German Empire with Austria - Hungary (the Dual Alliance) which was the cornerstone of Bismarck foreign policy. The Austrian Prime Minister Taafe, and Emperor Franz Josef, were in favor of the policy, and did not like Rudolf's attempts to end the alliance. Rudolf had looked forward to working with Fritz as they ended the militarism. Bismarck was aware of all this: and he was not one to forgive it. There are many who insist the "suicides" at Mayerling were a political murder engineered by Bismarck and his agents.

            2) Earlier, in 1886, another opponent of importance who confronted Bismarck died in odd circumstances. King Ludwig II of Bavaria (at first sight) is easy to dismiss. This is the nut who built all those crazy castles (which now are feeding money into Bavaria's coffers as tourist attractions - how crazy was he?). Ludwig also bankrolled Richard Wagner and his Bayreuth music center for his operas. In 1866 he supported his Hapsburg relatives (he was a Wittelsbach) in the Seven Week War against Prussia, and was forced to see his country defeated with his ally. But in the 1870s he led the "minor" princes and kings of the lesser German states to rebel against Bismarck. In the constitution he hamstrung total control by Prussia, and he forced Bismarck to allow the "lesser" states to retain their own postal systems and coinage over a certain amount. That's why there are stamps from Bavaria, Wurttenburg, Saxony, and other German states (including Prussia) besides German stamps for the 2nd Reich.

            Bismarck was not thrilled about this, and when Ludwig's mental state collapsed and he was overthrown in a palace coup he was not upset.
            Ludwig was put into the care of a Dr. Gudden who ran a sanitarium near Lake Starnberg. In 1886 both men were killed in an incident that appears to be Ludwig killing Gudden in an attempt to escape by swimming the lake, but having a heart attack in the Lake. However, others have suggested Ludwig was murdered (drowned) as was Gudden.

            Now, if the evidence linking Monty with Whitechapel is non-existant, the evidence linking Monty with Bismarck and the events of 1886 to 1889 is even less so. But gee...Monty disliked Bismarck, was outspoken about it, and drowned under odd circumstances. So did Ludwig. Monty died in December 1888, and Rudolf about seven weeks afterwards.

            Now you can see why I wondered about it. You can also see why I never tried to push the theory.

            Jeff

            Comment


            • #51
              Greetings Jeff,
              I do find your 'Meyerlings'* through the pages of LVP European and American history fascinating.
              [* I have decided to christen your interesting postings in future as " Meyerlings" ].
              I would define them as posts which commence using some premise or word association, or person-association to expain some lesser-known but always very enlightening incident in past history. I say this most sincerely, your gentle, entertaining and instructive postings are always a good read.
              But this post is to tell you how excited I became on reading your post about the Hampshire vs Dorsetshire cricket match of August, 1883.
              When I read the name " G.W, Lushington" I thought, my goodness, not only did MJD play cricket against Ruggles-Brise of the Home Office but also Godfrey Lushington. Who was the Permanent Under-Secretary at the Home Office in 1883 and 1888.
              No such luck. Googling tells me G.W.L. was a mad sportsman and horse-trainer and rider, "GRAHAM WILDMAN LUSHINGTON " who was based mainly at Conyngham Lodge in Ireland. He rode and trained steeple-chasers. It was from Conyngham Lodge that the Prince of Wales produced his successful Grand National winner " Ambush" in 1900.
              However, this colourful character played at least two games of cricket with MJD.
              The Home Office Lushington was the son of Dr Lushington, and was born in 1832.( Source: Stewart P. Evans & Keith Skinner's excellent " The Ultimate
              Jack the Ripper Sourcebook
              ". At page 746). JOHN RUFFELS.

              Comment


              • #52
                The Musings of "Mayerling" or "Meyerling" Bloomfield

                Hi John,

                Feel free to use the term - maybe it will catch on.

                Actually if some of my passes or guesses seem far fetched the intention (as you can guess) is well meant. I really believe that if this case ever gets close to being solved it will be through some damn coincidence. A name popping up in two unrelated (or seemingly unrelated) positions. You never can tell. It's because everything gets interconnected, whether we like it or not.

                A number of years back there was a television show I liked called "Connections" which demonstrated how ideas bred innovations which in turn were expanded or reused differently leading to new ideas and new innovations. Something like that can happen here. We may one day find an ancient 1885 cricket game review in a newspaper mentioning something like
                "Mr. M. J. Druitt was greeted by some fans including the well known poet Mr. J. K. Stephens" or something like that. It is like my interest if anyone can ever find a photo (I doubt it) showing Bury meeting Chapman.

                But in revealing my "Bismarck" theory I was illustrating a point that I carried too far...far enough for me to question too.

                Even if G.W.Lushington was not our man Godfrey, but just a wildman, perhaps they were related. As far as I can guess the name is not that common (for that matter the use of "Wildman" as a middle name is not that common at all - was it his real middle name?).

                At least there is the Valentine connection, and maybe the Hughes - Hallett.

                But let's hope you find more cricket articles.

                Jeff

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mayerling View Post
                  But let's hope you find more cricket articles.
                  While in England next month I will be visiting the Bournemouth public library to search the newpaper archives for such information. They have three Bournemouth newspapers from 1888 on microfilm.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Hi Andy,

                    Hoping you will find more of the cricket references to Druitt. By the way, has anyone checked out a sporting paper of that period (which really concentrated on horse racing) called THE WINNIG POST. Maybe they covered cricket as well.

                    Jeff

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Hi Jeff,

                      There are a number of sporting journals included in the British Library digital database but that is not one of them.

                      The primary reason for my checking the Bournemouth newspapers will be to look for an alibi for Montague. The most likely source of such an alibi would be his participation in a cricket match in Dorset within about 12 hours of the Nichols murder. We know he played cricket there in early August and we know he played there again on Sept 1. If I can find that he played in Dorset on August 31 or late on August 30 that pretty well establishes his presence outside of London and rules him out as the killer of Nichols. If he didn't kill Nichols I don't believe he is JtR.

                      OTOH, if I see accounts of several important matches, especially those of his usual team(s), on those dates and Montague is not a participant that would tend to suggest (though not prove) that he was not in Dorset at the time.

                      Although I have been a proponent of Druitt as a suspect, this is a quest for the truth. If the truth is that Druitt is innocent then that truth needs to be revealed as well. There will never be evidence of Druitt's guilt but we just might find evidence of his innocence.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        hEllo Andy,
                        I couldn't agree with you more concerning your approach to Montague Druitt's alleged guilt.
                        As regards the cricket matches he played on a weekly - and sometimes more - basis: I am under the impression the cricketers "bible" - Wisden's - not only published its yearly compilation of the year's cricketing in great detail, I am under the impression they produced a wekly also called Wisden's.
                        I suggest you seek this out, and I am sure you will find almost complete details of MJD's cricketing activities.
                        These will, of course, have recieved a lot of coverage in local papers. And other weekly journals in London.
                        JOHN RUFFELS.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Roving researcher Spallek reporting from Fareham, England;

                          Made the trek to the Bournemouth library today to check the microfilm of 1888-9 newspapers. I was looking particularly for a cricketing alibi from Montie on 30 or 31 August. I found none. In fact, it appears that the Dorset teams he normally played for were not in action on those dates -- tho he did, of course, play on Sept. 1 for Canford vs. Wimborne as was already known. He would have had plenty of time to get from London to Dorset for this fixture, however.

                          I admit that the three newspapers I checked may not have covered every single match and it is not impossible that I missed something. But I looked hard and found no cricketing alibi whatsoever.

                          An interesting thing is that although two of these papers listed Bournemouth visitors, Montague is never listed as a visitor. Not in early August when he played in Dorset. Not Sept. 1. And, most interestingly, not at the end of October when brother William said he visited him at Bournemouth. There are never any visitors listed at William's home, Montgomery House, in Bournemouth during this period. My guess is that Montague, being family, did not consider himself a visitor.

                          I could find no coverage of Montie's death other than the "sad Death of a Barrister" article that we already have.

                          I did find some interesting tidbits about John Henry Lonsdale which I will transcribe and post to the relevant thread. However, they have no real bearing on the case.

                          Off to Winchester tomorrow.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Well done Andy,
                            Thanks for sharing your preliminary discoveries. I shall look forward to further dispatches from the Dorset front.
                            If you have no luck finding MJD mentioned in Dorset fixtures for those favoured dates, I suggest you look outside the square and check a paper from a major county town or city: like Winchester.
                            Cricket addicts like Druitt, unless he was ill, would have moved heaven and earth to get a beloved game of cricket to participate in. If not in Bournemouth or that area, try outside that area. Once again, Wiltshire or a Hampshire city paper.Even Gloucestershire (Bristol).
                            Interesting that you say no visitor was recorded for William Druitt during the significant dates.
                            Keep investigating Andy. JOHN RUFFELS.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Apologies if already posted.

                              There is a small paragraph written in 1885 regarding Blackheath. Matches played 28, won 15, drawn 6 and lost 7. The club scored 4,151 runs losing 276 wickets with an average of 15.11 per wicket. The batting of the club has not been so good as in previous years, though L. Stoke and M. J. Druitt have batted consistently well. The bowling has been up to the previous standard with Stanley and Sidney Christopherson, M. J. Druitt, G. Chetwynd and R.P. Sewell having good figures.

                              Druitt's average was 33.1 with the bat with a high score of 76 not out and 41 wickets at 7.35 per wicket.

                              https://archive.acscricket.com/cricket/1885/420/#zoom=z

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                https://archive.acscricket.com/cricket/1885/419/#zoom=z

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