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  • The man who denounced druitt ?

    During the late 19th Century there were two distinct and separate families named Tuke. To confuse matters even further both Tuke families were engaged in the same profession namely the humane treatment of the insane. The two families were friends and often collaborated in their endeavours to promote new treatments and methods of non-restraint. Thomas Harrington Tuke gave frequent lectures and talks at the Hanwell asylum supervised by his friend and namesake Daniel Hack-Tuke
    Thomas Harrington Tuke ran an asylum at the Manor House in Chiswick. He was married to Sophia Connoly the daughter of John Connoly a pioneer in non-restaint methods and who ran a similar establishment in nearby Hanwell. Connoly had died in 1866 and in 1875 he was eventually succeeded by Daniel Hack-Tuke of the Quaker family who had first introduced non restraint into their own establishment in York. Daniel Hack-Tuke had two sons. One, Henry Scott Tuke became a painter of some repute specialising in paintings of young naked boys.
    Thomas Harrington Tuke died in the summer of 1888 and passed control of the Chiswick asylum to his eldest son Thomas Seymour Tuke who ran it together with his two brothers and a locum, Doctor Cobbold. It was Thomas Tuke who nursed Ann Druitt during her final days which were spent st the Chiswick asylum. He also failed to mention, in Ann Druitts case notes that her own son had committed suicide just eighteen months earlier virtually on the doorstep of his asylum whereas he did see fit to mention other instances of suicide, and attempted suicide within Anns own family as pertinent facts. Ann Druitts death certificate was signed by Thomas Tuke and Dr Cobbold
    Montague Druitt and Thomas Tuke had both attended Oxford University at the same time and both shared a keen interest in Cricket with Montague playing for the University team. In fact Dr Tuke, Dr Cobbold and Druit all played cricket for the same team the ‘Incogniti’
    Druitts death is dated the 4th December just 5 days after purchasing a return ticket to nearby Hammersmith a short walk from the Chiswick asylum.
    During those last days Montague would have ‘resided’ somewhere. William Druitt, Montagues brother, decision in 1890 to send Ann into the care of the Tukes asylum, close to the very spot where her own Son had apparently taken his life strongly suggests that there was a connection between the Druitt family and the Tuke family. The Tuke asylum may even be the ‘asylum’ referred to in George Sims et al contention tin which Druitt had been confined. Dr W. Cobbold, employed as a locum at the Tuke asylum,and a signatory to Ann Druitts case notes played cricket for the ‘incogniti’ a team in which Druitt and the Tuke brothers also played.
    This would also explain how Montagues badly decomposed corpse was identified so quickly. It should be remembered that the policeman who searched the body told the inquest that there were no papers or letters of any kind found on the body.The place where he had resided was not Valentines school at all. It was where he had resided for the last few days of his life almost certainly the Manor House Asylum. These may well have been the friends who according to MacNaghten had entertained grave doubts as to Druitts sanity. There is some evidence which suggests that this possibility is very real.
    The Red House museum of local history in Christchurch Dorset boast among its exhibits a painting by Henry Scott Tuke son of Daniel Hack Tuke and a friend and contemporary of Thomas Seymour Tuke. Interestingly the Red House museum, a former workhouse built in the 18th Century was gifted to the borough of Christchurch by no less than the Druitt family. .But just recently yet another fascinating piece of information surfaced.
    In issue 165 of ‘Ripperologist’ writer David Barrat presented an article about the many letters which had been received by Scotland Yard at the time of the Ripper murders. None of the letters have survived but luckily a list of those who had sent information in to Scotland Yard had been made before the letters were routinely destroyed, the list comprises of 227 entries. As I went through the list one name jumped off the page. Letter 131 on the list was sent to Scotland Yard on the 24th November 1888. All we do know about this letter is that it offered suggestions re: the Whitechapel murder. The writer of the letter was Henry Scott Tuke the son of Daniel Hack-Tuke of the Hanwell asylum and friend of Dr Thomas Seymour Tuke. Less than one week after this letter was received George Sims wrote in his newspaper column published on the 2nd December, two days before Montagues death that Commissioner Monro was on to someone.
    On 5 April 1903, and again in ‘The Referee’, Sims wrote that:

    . . . the body of the man suspected by the chiefs at the Yard, and by his own friends,
    who were in communication with the Yard, was found in the Thames. The body had been in the water for about a month . . . ‘Jack the Ripper’ was known, was identified, and is dead. Let him rest.

    Was Henry Scott Tuke the man who denounced Druitt?




    David Andersen
    Author of 'BLOOD HARVEST'
    (My Hunt for Jack The Ripper)

  • #2
    Hello David.

    I had wondered if "his things were searched where he resided" might mean the Manor House Asylum, I wondered if Montie might have had a room there.
    In the suicide note where we read "not wanting to be like mother" (or words to that effect), may not have meant the malady his mother suffered from (depression, etc.), but being incarcerated for life was what he feared.

    No other named suspect has intrigued me as much as Druitt, and yet for me one of thee most prominent respectably dressed but unnamed suspects had a couple of physical disabilities that for the life of me I cannot imagine applied to Druitt.
    I reluctantly favor two suspects that appear to be poles apart. If some hint ever surfaces that Druitt had some complication around the eyes, like madarosis, or that he walked with an awkward gait (hardly likely for such an accomplished cricketer), I would be shocked to say the least.

    I enjoyed Blood Harvest very much.

    Regards, Jon S.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by David Andersen View Post
      During the late 19th Century there were two distinct and separate families named Tuke. To confuse matters even further both Tuke families were engaged in the same profession namely the humane treatment of the insane. The two families were friends and often collaborated in their endeavours to promote new treatments and methods of non-restraint. Thomas Harrington Tuke gave frequent lectures and talks at the Hanwell asylum supervised by his friend and namesake Daniel Hack-Tuke
      Thomas Harrington Tuke ran an asylum at the Manor House in Chiswick. He was married to Sophia Connoly the daughter of John Connoly a pioneer in non-restaint methods and who ran a similar establishment in nearby Hanwell. Connoly had died in 1866 and in 1875 he was eventually succeeded by Daniel Hack-Tuke of the Quaker family who had first introduced non restraint into their own establishment in York. Daniel Hack-Tuke had two sons. One, Henry Scott Tuke became a painter of some repute specialising in paintings of young naked boys.
      Thomas Harrington Tuke died in the summer of 1888 and passed control of the Chiswick asylum to his eldest son Thomas Seymour Tuke who ran it together with his two brothers and a locum, Doctor Cobbold. It was Thomas Tuke who nursed Ann Druitt during her final days which were spent st the Chiswick asylum. He also failed to mention, in Ann Druitts case notes that her own son had committed suicide just eighteen months earlier virtually on the doorstep of his asylum whereas he did see fit to mention other instances of suicide, and attempted suicide within Anns own family as pertinent facts. Ann Druitts death certificate was signed by Thomas Tuke and Dr Cobbold
      Montague Druitt and Thomas Tuke had both attended Oxford University at the same time and both shared a keen interest in Cricket with Montague playing for the University team. In fact Dr Tuke, Dr Cobbold and Druit all played cricket for the same team the ‘Incogniti’
      Druitts death is dated the 4th December just 5 days after purchasing a return ticket to nearby Hammersmith a short walk from the Chiswick asylum.
      During those last days Montague would have ‘resided’ somewhere. William Druitt, Montagues brother, decision in 1890 to send Ann into the care of the Tukes asylum, close to the very spot where her own Son had apparently taken his life strongly suggests that there was a connection between the Druitt family and the Tuke family. The Tuke asylum may even be the ‘asylum’ referred to in George Sims et al contention tin which Druitt had been confined. Dr W. Cobbold, employed as a locum at the Tuke asylum,and a signatory to Ann Druitts case notes played cricket for the ‘incogniti’ a team in which Druitt and the Tuke brothers also played.
      This would also explain how Montagues badly decomposed corpse was identified so quickly. It should be remembered that the policeman who searched the body told the inquest that there were no papers or letters of any kind found on the body.The place where he had resided was not Valentines school at all. It was where he had resided for the last few days of his life almost certainly the Manor House Asylum. These may well have been the friends who according to MacNaghten had entertained grave doubts as to Druitts sanity. There is some evidence which suggests that this possibility is very real.
      The Red House museum of local history in Christchurch Dorset boast among its exhibits a painting by Henry Scott Tuke son of Daniel Hack Tuke and a friend and contemporary of Thomas Seymour Tuke. Interestingly the Red House museum, a former workhouse built in the 18th Century was gifted to the borough of Christchurch by no less than the Druitt family. .But just recently yet another fascinating piece of information surfaced.
      In issue 165 of ‘Ripperologist’ writer David Barrat presented an article about the many letters which had been received by Scotland Yard at the time of the Ripper murders. None of the letters have survived but luckily a list of those who had sent information in to Scotland Yard had been made before the letters were routinely destroyed, the list comprises of 227 entries. As I went through the list one name jumped off the page. Letter 131 on the list was sent to Scotland Yard on the 24th November 1888. All we do know about this letter is that it offered suggestions re: the Whitechapel murder. The writer of the letter was Henry Scott Tuke the son of Daniel Hack-Tuke of the Hanwell asylum and friend of Dr Thomas Seymour Tuke. Less than one week after this letter was received George Sims wrote in his newspaper column published on the 2nd December, two days before Montagues death that Commissioner Monro was on to someone.
      On 5 April 1903, and again in ‘The Referee’, Sims wrote that:

      . . . the body of the man suspected by the chiefs at the Yard, and by his own friends,
      who were in communication with the Yard, was found in the Thames. The body had been in the water for about a month . . . ‘Jack the Ripper’ was known, was identified, and is dead. Let him rest.

      Was Henry Scott Tuke the man who denounced Druitt?



      fascinating post. btw the david barrat alluded to is none other than Lord Orsam.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #4
        As an off topic aside, any idea who ran the manor house in 1842-45
        Last edited by GUT; 05-02-2021, 05:33 AM.
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • #5
          I knew I'd read that post before, it was in another Druitt thread. Decent post then, decent post now. Genuinely interesting stuff, there's a few possible routes for the Druitt info to have made it's way to Melville. It doesn't make him a murderer, but it explains why he was included in the memoranda.
          Thems the Vagaries.....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GUT View Post
            As an off topic aside, any idea who ran the manor house in 1842-45
            Manor House Asylum was begun by Edward Francis Tuke and his wife Mary in about 1837,[1] who took a lease on Manor Farm House in Chiswick Lane, a late 17th-century building.[2] It was demolished in 1896.[3]

            The 9th Duke of Devonshire rented Chiswick House to the brothers Thomas Seymour and Charles Molesworth Tuke (sons of Thomas Harrington Tuke) from 1892 to 1928, when it was home to 30-40 private patients, before he sold it to Middlesex County Council in 1929. The asylum closed in 1940.[4] The two wings that housed the patients were demolished in 1956, as were many of the outbuildings, so little trace of the asylum remains today.[5]
            Notable patients[edit]


            Case notes of Robert Wilson, a patient of Manor House Asylum, 1892-1907. Wellcome L0050073

            In 1852, the Chartist leader Feargus O'Connor MP was declared insane after a scene in the House of Commons, and confined to Chiswick Asylum, where he remained until 1854, and died in 1855.[2] Harriet Mordaunt spent much of her later life in the asylum.[6]

            In 1865, Rev William Cotton spent several weeks in the Manor House Asylum.[7]


            David Andersen
            Author of 'BLOOD HARVEST'
            (My Hunt for Jack The Ripper)

            Comment


            • #7
              Very interesting, David. An intriguing possibility.

              At least two objections, though:

              1. As far as I can tell, HS Tuke lived in Falmouth at the time, quite far from the asylum, I believe? Although he may have been friends with TS Tuke, would the latter share details of his patients’ family with him?
              I mean, Druitt himself was never a patient at the asylum. So suspicion would come from the mother? Would Dr Tuke bother to share such patient’s suspicions with Mr Tuke the artist who lived halfway across Cornwall?
              Or how do you think this suspicion was disseminated from the asylum to Falmouth?

              2. MacNaghten wrote “from private information”
              The letter from HS Tuke was not private, it was sent to the Yard.
              Private information in this context would have meant information received outside his official police capacity. Clearly this letter was received through the normal channels and treated like all the others.


              Comment


              • #8
                There is no reason to suppose that Henry S. Tuke spent his life in Cornwall without ever visiting his family and friends in London. He might well have been a friend of Montague Druitt,perhaps even a close friend. He was certainly a friend of Thomas Tuke. We dont know whether Druitt was ever a patient of Tuke, or not, although they were friends and its almost certain that Druitt spent his last days at the Manor House asylum. MacNaghtens information came piecemeal over a period of time and the 'private information could have come from Monro, who would have known of Henry Tukes letter as well as other info from the Druitt family which led him to write that he had no doubt that Druitts friends, and family, suspected him. Its a pity that the correspondence was destroyed, but the fact that we now know that a friend of Druitt actually wrote to the Home Office just days before Druitts flight to Chiswick and his death is significant.
                David Andersen
                Author of 'BLOOD HARVEST'
                (My Hunt for Jack The Ripper)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Andersen View Post
                  There is no reason to suppose that Henry S. Tuke spent his life in Cornwall without ever visiting his family and friends in London. He might well have been a friend of Montague Druitt,perhaps even a close friend. He was certainly a friend of Thomas Tuke. We dont know whether Druitt was ever a patient of Tuke, or not, although they were friends and its almost certain that Druitt spent his last days at the Manor House asylum. MacNaghtens information came piecemeal over a period of time and the 'private information could have come from Monro, who would have known of Henry Tukes letter as well as other info from the Druitt family which led him to write that he had no doubt that Druitts friends, and family, suspected him. Its a pity that the correspondence was destroyed, but the fact that we now know that a friend of Druitt actually wrote to the Home Office just days before Druitts flight to Chiswick and his death is significant.
                  Yes, HS Tuke’s wiki page states he frequently went to London, I’m not suggesting he was a recluse.

                  I agree the connection is intriguing but first you write “He might well have been a friend of Montague Druitt,perhaps even a close friend” then afterwards you write “we now know that a friend of Druitt actually wrote to the Home Office”

                  So you seem to move rapidly from supposition to established fact.

                  As in: “It’s almost certain” that Druitt spent his last days at the asylum - what do you base that on?

                  MacNaghten’s phrase strongly suggests information gained outside the police force, so not from Monro’s knowledge of Tuke’s letter.

                  To be clear, I’m not poopooing it. Just asking whether the relationships you imply are as well-established as you think

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Interesting thread. It is telling that we now seem to have a clearer idea of how Scotland Yard received information about Druitt. Always before it has been a mystery to be speculated about.
                    Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                    ---------------
                    Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                    ---------------

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Andersen View Post

                      Manor House Asylum was begun by Edward Francis Tuke and his wife Mary in about 1837,[1] who took a lease on Manor Farm House in Chiswick Lane, a late 17th-century building.[2] It was demolished in 1896.[3]

                      The 9th Duke of Devonshire rented Chiswick House to the brothers Thomas Seymour and Charles Molesworth Tuke (sons of Thomas Harrington Tuke) from 1892 to 1928, when it was home to 30-40 private patients, before he sold it to Middlesex County Council in 1929. The asylum closed in 1940.[4] The two wings that housed the patients were demolished in 1956, as were many of the outbuildings, so little trace of the asylum remains today.[5]
                      Notable patients[edit]


                      Case notes of Robert Wilson, a patient of Manor House Asylum, 1892-1907. Wellcome L0050073

                      In 1852, the Chartist leader Feargus O'Connor MP was declared insane after a scene in the House of Commons, and confined to Chiswick Asylum, where he remained until 1854, and died in 1855.[2] Harriet Mordaunt spent much of her later life in the asylum.[6]

                      In 1865, Rev William Cotton spent several weeks in the Manor House Asylum.[7]

                      Thank you, I had a somewhat distant relative there in that time span. Interesting enough also a Cotton, of the same Cotton family
                      Last edited by GUT; 05-02-2021, 08:20 PM.
                      G U T

                      There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
                        MacNaghten’s phrase strongly suggests information gained outside the police force, so not from Monro’s knowledge of Tuke’s letter.
                        I'm not endorsing the idea, but Howells & Skinner suggested many years ago that Monro could have been Macnaghten's source--perhaps once Monro was "outside the police force."

                        Their theory was that Monro may have received private info about Druitt, but held it back so as not to impugn the name of a respectable family, and perhaps--though they don't state this themselves--because the information was not conclusive. Nevertheless, Monro held it in reserve in case an innocent man was ever charged with the crimes. (This last detail was suggested by Christopher Monro).

                        Monro then retired in 1890. Sometime later, around 1891 or so, he then forwarded Macnaghten the private information, presumably at the time of either the Kosminski or Sadler investigations, when things were 'heating up.'

                        Unfortunately, the thinking strikes me as rather convoluted. They do not state why Monro would have withheld this information from Macnaghten in 1889, at the time of the Mackenzie murder, considering it would have been highly relevant.

                        Comment

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