Montague John "Jack" Druitt?

[Darian1952]

First of all, this post is a story only. It's not intended to shed light or new light on anything. I was 16 when my grandfather passed away in 1969. His father (my great-grandfather) had immigrated here to Canada in 1889. He had been a tailor in the Shepherd's Bush area of London. My grandfather was born in 1892.

The only thing I was interested in at that age was my car, girls, and who'd buy me some beer. At my grandfather's funeral "reception", my dad said that "grandpa" knew who JTR was. He just happened to mention this in passing (no pun intended). Only knowing that he hadn't been caught, I asked, "How did he know?" My dad explained that his grandfather while still in London was close personal friends with a "Guy at Scotland Yard" (sic) who'd told my great-grandfather, that his name was 'Jack Druitt' and that he was dead. I thought nothing more of it.

Now why my dad chose to call him Jack Druitt, I don't know. It had obviously been handed down by his (my dad's) grandfather. Perhaps my grandfather, hearing it from *his* father, thought he went by 'Jack' a common nickname for John. Or, he didn't know Druitt's first name at all and simply applied Jack to it, as in JTR.

But for *whatever* reason, in 1969 at the time of my grandfather's death, he thought JTR was 'Jack Druitt'. Again, just a story.

Regards,
D.

And for a bit of gruesome family lore, that's my great-grandfather at the bottom of the steps, the tall bald guy. I didn't know this photo existed until 1977 when I received a bunch of stuff when my father died. I was with the RCMP by then and donated a copy of the photo to the federal govt. of Canada...

[lynn cates]

date

Hello Darian. Great story. Was he told in 1889 or was it some other year?

Cheers.
LC

[Beowulf]

[QUOTE
And for a bit of gruesome family lore, that's my great-grandfather at the bottom of the steps, the tall bald guy. I didn't know this photo existed until 1977 when I received a bunch of stuff when my father died. I was with the RCMP by then and donated a copy of the photo to the federal govt. of Canada...[/QUOTE]

Very interesting story. Love stuff like this.

I wonder where this picture was taken, year and who is being hung and why, if your grandfather was a tailor why was he at this hanging?

Very interesting re: 'Jack' Druitt. Something to think about.

[Darian1952]

Hello Lynn...

Hello Darian. Great story. Was he told in 1889 or was it some other year?

Cheers.
LC

I can only assume it was 1889 as I don't know if my great-grandfather would have any further communications from his "friend" after coming to Canada, but maybe. I understand the implications of the year (1889), but again it's all hearsay.

[Darian1952]

Hello Beowolf...

[QUOTE
And for a bit of gruesome family lore, that's my great-grandfather at the bottom of the steps, the tall bald guy. I didn't know this photo existed until 1977 when I received a bunch of stuff when my father died. I was with the RCMP by then and donated a copy of the photo to the federal govt. of Canada...

Very interesting story. Love stuff like this.

I wonder where this picture was taken, year and who is being hung and why, if your grandfather was a tailor why was he at this hanging?

Very interesting re: 'Jack' Druitt. Something to think about.[/QUOTE]

I wish I knew. All I ever heard abut my great-grandfather was that he was a raging alcoholic. Whether he continued on as a tailor in Canada, I don't know that either. Maybe he made the outfits the other guys are wearing, or maybe he was "next", I have no idea..lol. I wish I'd become interested in genealogy at an earlier age sometimes, I might know the answer to some of these things.

[miss marple]

Very interesting photo,Darien it looks like a very short drop. The building on the right has the same brickwork as Wormwood Scrubs,
The long drop was introduced in 1872 by Marwood but perhaps the rope is coiled, but is there a trap under his feet?

What is your Great grandfathers name? I 'm sure the genealogists among us could research him and maybe find the connection with the picture.

Miss Marple

[RavenDarkendale]

You can faintly see the line of the trap near the feet of the guy I assume is the hangman, since the priest is on the opposite side of the condemned man. Perhaps grandfather was there as a witness...

[RavenDarkendale]

Concerning Druitt as a suspect. Does anyone know what his cricket schedule was? Was he near Whitechapel at all during ANY of the murders? I am not saying place him near there for all of the murders, some are questioned as being by JtR. To get him as a suspect, he needs to be close enough to have committed the Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman murders, two which do not seem to be in debate.

(For example: Some people add in Martha Tabram, which I agree is probable. Some toss out Stride, which I find very possible. Some toss out Eddows, there I disagree. Some toss out Mary Kelly which I find quite possible.)

My own list would go:

Undiscovered murder
Martha Tabram
Polly Nichols
Anne Chapman
Catherine Eddows
More undiscovered bodies and/or the death or imprisonment of JtR.

Oh, BTW. Druitt is the suspect I favor. I'm just looking for evidence he was near enough to the sites to commit the crimes. If not, we might have to look elsewhere for JtR

God Bless

Raven

[Jonathan H]

In my opinion I agree.

Every aspect of the Druitt-Farquharason-Macnaghten-cronies theory is controversial.

Well, not really. There's myself and there's ... everybody else. That means a near consensus that Druitt is a minor, or unlikely, or successfully debunked suspect.

On the question you asked, Andrew Spallek put that succinctly elsewhere on a thread.

I stress that Spallek was never militant about Druitt's culpability -- just that he might be the fiend, but probably wasn't. This was acceptable (before he was disgraced and imprisoned) whereas to actually come out and flatly sate that 'of course he's the fiend' otherwise he would never have been accused of such an extraordinary and ghastly thing -- and posthumously -- if they were not 100% sure, is to cheerful announce that you have the Ebola Virus.


1. Polly Nichols: Murdered early morning 31 August. Druitt's next known appearance is 1 September playing cricket in Dorset. This gives Druitt approximately 30 hours to complete a rail journey of perhaps 3 hours.

2. Ann Chapman: Murdered early morning 8 September. Druitt's next known appearance is later that morning playing cricket in Blackheath. Phil Sugden indicates this match began at 11:30. The rail journey to Blackheath would have been about 30 minutes. Even allowing time for Druitt to make his way to Cannon Street Station, he has more than 4 hours to spare.

3. Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes: Eddowes murdered before 2 AM on 30 September. Cricketing season had ended for most club's (including Druitt's regular club) by this day. A few fixtures were held on 30 September and one or two "make-up" fixtures shortly afterward but Druitt is not known to have participated in these. Druitt's next appearance: According to Leighton, Druitt appeared in court in the West Country (probably meaning Dorset or Hampshire) on 1 October. Leighton does not cite any source but even if it is so, Druitt has well over 30 hours to complete this rail journey of about 3 hours.

4. Mary Kelly: Murdered on 9 November, probably early morning. There are no known movements of Druitt within the following few days.

[RavenDarkendale]

Thank you. So for the ones that are not in dispute, Druitt could have committed the crime, he had plenty of time. It's the fact that he would have to take a train that I find worrying. Of course, it is perfectly logical that he would have used a means of travel that would allow for time to commit the murder and clean up and vanish. But do any of the descriptions really match Druitt?

Aside here: Druitt and Prince Eddy did resemble each other quite a bit...

God bless

Raven

[Jonathan H]

In my opinion ...

Druitt is arguably a perfect generic fit for Joseph Lawende's description of a thirty-something man, of medium height, with a fair moustache and complexion dressed like a sailor and chatting amiably to Eddowes.

A Jew seeing a Gentile.

Macnaghten, I think, went to great lengths to obscure this prime sighting and this key witness -- who may have been twice used to 'confront' Ripper suspects who were Gentile sailors in 1891 and 1895.

In the official version of his 'Report' (1894) Macnaghten eliminates Lawende along with all other witnesses.

In 'Aberconway' (perhaps written as late as 1898?) he turned the German Jew into a beat cop seeing a Polish Jew, perhaps 'Kosminski'.

Thus for the cronies and the public, he had pulled inside-out the ethnicity of witness and suspect.

In his memoirs, Macnaghten again withdrew the notion of a key witness who saw anything of substance.

I'm alone on this, but I think that Macnaghten believed that Joseph Lawende's 'Jack the Sailor' was a sighting of Montague Druitt and this is why the waters had to be muddied.

George Sims, whom I argue parrots what Macnaghten wanted him to say for the public, claimed in 1907 that the Ripper -- supposedly a middle-aged, unemployed, reclusive, affluent, English doctor -- walked home from each murder.