Upon what basis did the Druitt family suspect Montague?

[pinkmoon]

Hi All,

We only have Melville [Memory Man] Macnaghten's word for Druitt's family ever having suspected Montie of having been the Ripper.

Why should we believe him?

Regards,

Simon

Mac would have no need to lie he wasn't involved in ripper case so he wouldn't have to save face and try and make out he knew.The story about the killer having drowned himself was doing the rounds around the east end very soon after Kelly's appalling murder .It's quite possible that story got back to druitts own family at some stage what would you do if a close member of your family committed suicide and then someone started to spread very nasty stories about him maybe go to police to see if they can help?.

[Simon Wood]

Hi pinkmoon,

"The story about the killer having drowned himself was doing the rounds around the east end very soon after Kelly's appalling murder."

Care to elucidate?

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

We only have Melville [Memory Man] Macnaghten's word for Druitt's family ever having suspected Montie of having been the Ripper.

But what about the West Country MP?

And the North Country vicar?

And the East End priest?

And our friend in the Southern Hemisphere?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

What about them?

None of these stories necessarily reference MJD.

As to our antipodean friend, I truly admire his fortitude.

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

As to our antipodean friend, I truly admire his fortitude.

Me too, Simon and his indefatigability also .

[pinkmoon]

Hi pinkmoon,

"The story about the killer having drowned himself was doing the rounds around the east end very soon after Kelly's appalling murder."

Care to elucidate?

Regards,

Simon

My great grandparents lived in the area and that is the story that's been passed down through my family.Great grandparents reckon this story was about a few weeks after the women was murdered inside her room.

[Graham]

I don't think anyone's accusing Mac of lying, but as he couldn't apparently remember Druitt's actual profession then perhaps he wasn't the superhuman Memory Man some would have us believe. My own belief, hunch, call it what you will, is that someone had a word with Mac at some point prior to the publication of his memoirs, mentioning the discovery of a body in The Thames, adding that the police were looking for this person when alive in connection with the Ripper murders, and which good old Mac thought just the job for his memoirs, and also to some extent vindicating what might just have been viewed as incompetence on the part of the police. Maybe....

G

[Jonathan H]

Yes, I am 'accusing' Macnaghten of lying.

It's there in the primary record.

Nobody told him anything about Druitt before he wrote his memoirs. Chapter IV "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper", is clearly his last adaptation of the 'Report' he first wrote in 1894, in effect the third version--and the only one for publication under his own name.

I do not believe that there was a story doing the rounds of the East End soon after the Kelly murder, that the killer had drowned himself.

[Roy Corduroy]

Speaking of the family, here is a tid bit from David Andersen nine years ago on this (archived thread) and I quote -

"The interesting thing about Druitts grave is that his internment was 13 times the average cost. The cemetary burial book shows that Druitts internment cost five guineas. The average cost was eight shillings. This could not have been an inducement since the cemetary is non-conformist. Tips were not recorded in the book. It was for internment only. Given that Druitts relatives believed him to be JTR it is not unreasonable to assume that they may have taken some precautions to protect his grave. This happrned in the case of Dillinger when his family had several tons of concrete placed on the top of his coffin.

I have visited Wimborne many times. I was shown the entry by the cemetery keeper - Ken Richmond many years ago. It is also noted in Richard Whittington-Egans book on JTR. All of the burial books were kept in situ so they could still be available for perusal."

Roy

[Mayerling]

Could it possibly be that the greater cost for the burial was that Montie's death was suicide - and the churchyard grounds were consecrated? Only a month after Druitt's inquest and burial, the Hapsburg Family had to do crazy gyrations to get Crown Prince Rudolf buried in the family vault in Vienna, from the Roman Catholic Church, convincing the Pope that Rudolf was insane when he killed himself (so his suicide was that of a madman, not carefully planned out by a sane one - in the latter case it would be a violation of the Roman Catholic religion).

Jeff

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

But the inquest ruled that Monty killed himself while temporarily insane, so there should have been no problem there.

[C. F. Leon]

Hi Jeff

But the inquest ruled that Monty killed himself while temporarily insane, so there should have been no problem there.

Wasn't that the USUAL case at the time- failed suicides were criminal acts and successful ones were evidence of insanity?

[Stephen Thomas]

Nobody told him anything about Druitt before he wrote his memoirs. Chapter IV "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper", is clearly his last adaptation of the 'Report' he first wrote in 1894, in effect the third version--and the only one for publication under his own name.

Errrrr...

So why in 1894 does MM say Druitt's family suspected Druitt of being JTR?

[Robert]

Hi C.F. Leon

Dave and John will know a lot more about this than me, but it was possible for a suicide to be judged of sound mind. I think it's fair to say, though, that an inquest jury would try to convince themselves that the suicide was of unsound mind at the time of the suicide, provided the deceased aroused sympathy in them.

Here is a clipping from the Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser, Dec 3rd 1887.

[Jonathan H]

To Stephen Thmoas

You've taken that out of context as I was responding to another poster, who was arguing that Mac's memoir was based on conferring with somebody around 1914 about Druitt.

I believe that in 1891 Macnaghten conferred with the Druitts, or a Druitt, and for file, in 1894--due to the threat of the Cutbush story--he recorded for file that M. J. Druitt might not be a doctor but was definitely turned on by ultra-violence.