The mystery of Montague Druitt

[Adam Went]

Hi Curious,

Yes, it's a fantastic thing that they have survived the elements for so long - as Kat said, there's been a huge variety, everything from letters to transport papers to photographs - you name it. If you haven't had the chance to see it, James Cameron's "Ghosts Of The Abyss" from 2003 is a masterpiece and would be extremely interesting to watch, some very surprising objects have been preserved.

So the bigger question probably shouldn't be why the cheques were still legible, but how Druitt came to be carrying them with him when he decided to commit suicide....which brings it back round to perhaps seeming to be a sudden decision (involving some triggering event) to really do the deed rather than something which was planned out.

Cheers,
Adam.

[curious4]

Druitt

Hello Roma,

Donīt worry - personally I think the British Empire SHOULD be forgotten!

Hello Adam,

Yes, I expect youīre right but did any pen-and-ink letters survive? I suppose the only way is to write something in victorian ink and immerse it in water for a month

I had thought about the cheques as well. As a lawyer/solicitor wouldnīt he want to leave anything of value safe for his family?

[Roma]

So on 23 December (or when victorian ink is on his way...), Curious will tell us if his note in victorian ink is still legible... I'm waiting!

As for the cheques, Montie may have wanted to change them into cash or something. Indeed, Valentine may have told him (if the problem between them was homosexuality, of course): "ok, you'd better go abroad now. It's better for you and for me. I mean, for my school and its reputation. If you don't go, I'll have to call the police, and we'll be in a fine mess. Do you understand? That's the best we can do. (and then, kisses, bye, I love you, etc. Oops, what am I saying?!)" Then he handed his cheques to Montie, Montie went away. He was thinking of going to France first, and then, he didn't know, he was a bit lost. He would have liked to come back to London (the tickets)... and can we suppose he had something to do in Chiswick? I mean, did he really want to go to Wilson's chummery? Did he really think he could get some help over there?.... Why the hell didn't he leave a clear message before dying???!!!

[Adam Went]

The memory is being stretched a bit here so i'll have to double check and see exactly what the documents were and if it says what ink was used, but I would imagine ink used in 1888 would not have been that much different from ink used in 1912.

Cheers,
Adam.

[curious4]

Druitt

Hello Roma,

Sorry, no Victorian ink - I need a Tardis!

Hello Adam,

Thanks, it would be a help to know.

Just one more thing on the subject of watermen - then I promise to shut up. I came across a small volume of "Bygone Kent" and an article on the Princess Alice disaster caught my eye. A good deal of corpse-robbing went on (the details are nasty) but it says this about the watermen:

"Some river boatsmen, receiving five shillings for every body recovered, stole them from the makeshift mortuary of the Woolwich dockyard and claimed another five shillings for the second recovery. They fought each other over the corpses as they floated to the surface."

But I suppose there could have been the odd honest one!

[curious4]

Druitt ink

Shot down, and by my own son too!!(artist, archivist and book restorer). He informs me that ink was formerly oak apple based, reacted with paper and would have been readable after immersion in water.

However, in the 1880s the first fountain pens were well established and then another kind of ink was necessary. Any ink experts out there?

Tardis still necessary. Also came across a reference to "cheque washing" but could not find anything more about it.

[Roma]

Thanks to your son! Now, we just have to know what kind of pen was used. "Hello, Montie, could you please show us your pen?"...err... yes, I think a Tardis is required... If somebody has one at home, that would be great!!!

By the way (it's off the subject but interesting), yesterday I showed a woman (I didn't know her before and she told me she had no special gift) a photo of me. Everything she said about me was true (I'm an artist, yes; I'm surrounded by loving people, yes: I've got a wonderful family; I'm fair, yes: hey, I'm not going to say I'm not (!!!); I like to travel, yes and I don't like routine, yes. So (I wanted to test her with this 1st photo) I showed her a photo of Montague: she said that he had a stable lifestyle. Family was essential to him and he didn't spend his money like water (oops, bad pun), he used it to buy important and useful things. No sign of suicide...

[curious4]

Druitt

Hello Roma,

Interesting! On the face of it I wouldnīt have said he was a likely candidate for suicide either. Bring on the Tardis! They still make the oak (gall) apple ink, so after Christmas, if I have any money left, I may get some and make the experiment, and also check the fountain pen ink. Canīt reproduce the Thames water of the time - it was pretty disgusting! Also the body would have been badly knocked about so I suppose I could shake the jar or whatever

Did you see my message on page 2 about the Princess Alice disaster? Donīt think the watermen were very nice people, judging by what I read and not likely to leave anything on the body!

[Mayerling]

Wha happen? Who was that drowned body?

Boy what a rich thread!!!

Let's see, who could have been the drowned man...if not Monty?

1) John Openshaw - client of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson in The Adventure of the Five Orange Pips, who is (apparently) lured to the embankment of the Thames by members of the American K.K.K (now members of a ship called "The Lone Star"), and drowned. His body is recovered, and Holmes in a fury speeds his investigation and puts the sign of the pips (a sign of a threat) to the men on the ship. They flee but the ship disappears at sea, presumbly sunk in a storm.

2). Dr. Septimus Podger - a clairvoyant and hand reader who while looking at the hand of the relatively happy Lord Arthur Saville (in an Oscar Wilde story) sees he will murder somebody. Lord Arthur tries to kill one person after another to get rid of this unwanted curse, but fails. Then while walking on London Bridge at night during a fog he sees Dr. Podger gazing over the side. Suddenly Lord Arthur realizes what to do - and pushes the surprised Podger into the Thames. Nobody sees the incident, which passes as a suicide.

On a more serious note, in 1897, a man's body was found in the Thames and
identified by a woman who was supposed to be his wife as one Ludwig von Veltheim. He was a notorious swindler. However, it turned out not to be von Veltheim, who was under arrest in Johannsburg for shooting millionaire Woolf Joel in 1898. According to George Dilnot in his book on Scotland Yard it was a sailor off a barge who was the dead man.

Remittance man

Most notable one in history of crime is Percy Lefroy Mapleton - who spent two years in the Australian colonies.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Waterlogged papers

If I am not mistaken the papers on the Titanic were found in things like suitcases. It wasn't like somebody writing a letter in the tilting grand saloon of the ship and leaving it unfinished as he or she tried to get into a lifeboat.

I started doing a fictional dialogue concerning the discovery of Monty's body. The riverman doing the finding thinking, "Hm...takes me back to 1878 and the loss of the "Alice"...that woman on the dock screaming about her husband and children, and her three friends trying to remind her she had no family on the boat. I remembered she turned on one and yelled something like, "And you had none on the "Vasa"." Boy what a pest!"

[spyglass]

Hi,
I remember a documentry on the river police a few years back, and I recall one of the police officers saying that in almost every suicide attempt, the person will inexplicably take their shoes off.
Do we know if Druitt was found with his shoes on?
Just a thought.

[curious4]

Druitt

Hello,

Like your dialogue Mayerling!

Fully dressed except for hat and collar apparently - though how anyone could keep their hat on for a month while being bounced around in the Thames I donīt know!

[Roma]

Yes, no hat, no collar. But a question: why do people who want to drown take their shoes off?! It's weird!! Perhaps they want someone to find their shoes and say: "hey, somebody's drowned here!"...

And I read what you said, Curious, about Princess Alice and watermen. But I'm sceptical... There might have been a serious, pious and good waterman, why not?

Mayerling, it's interesting: if I understand well, William Druitt might have thought the drowned body was his brother and actually it was not. It's really possible: I read the body was very decomposed (poor Montie... Good to appear with Michael Jackson in the Thriller video...)

[jason_c]

Hello Roma,

Donīt worry - personally I think the British Empire SHOULD be forgotten!

Hello Adam,

Yes, I expect youīre right but did any pen-and-ink letters survive? I suppose the only way is to write something in victorian ink and immerse it in water for a month

I had thought about the cheques as well. As a lawyer/solicitor wouldnīt he want to leave anything of value safe for his family?

Ive just read a book about Operation mincemeat. It concerns floating a dead body onto the Spanish coast in the guise of a dead British Officer carrying sensitive war plans. The conclusion was that some ink remained preserved better than others whilst submerged. But in general ink survived well in suchcircumstances, particularly if a letter was inside an envelope.

[miss marple]

Were the cheques in a wallet? Or if they were in the inside pocket of a man's jacket they would have been well protected as the the pocket linings on men's jackets were thick and if the outside fabric was thick like a harris tweed, cord or heavy wool there would have been a fair bit of protection.
Miss Marple