Does Playing Cricket Make You Immune From Being A Serial Killer?

[Sickert]

On the question of serial killers and sports. Harold Shipman was in his youth a keen rugby player. I think that Ted Bundy was some sort of sportsman.

The real question here is whether or not cricket can be classed as sport :-)

Oh cause Cricket is a Sport

[Harry Poland]

On the question of serial killers and sports. Harold Shipman was in his youth a keen rugby player. I think that Ted Bundy was some sort of sportsman.

The real question here is whether or not cricket can be classed as sport :-)

[David Andersen]

I would just like to quote this:
Did Druite, then, have a known base from which he might have made murderous forays into the East End? MCC records, which give his address as 9 Eliot Place, Blackheath, suggest that he was a resident master at George Valentine's school. But the absence of an all-night train service between London and Blackheath makes it difficult to believe that the Ripper could have operated out of a base there.

Montague may well have had access to his chambers in Kings Bench Walk.

[Sickert]

To tnb, the quote came from "The Complete History Of Jack The Ripper." By Philip Sugden. Like all Ripper books, some of it is right and some is wrong. Thing is after so long we may never know what is and what isn't fact. But thank you for your input, it is nice to hear things you may not know.

[tnb]

Sickert,

Welcome and well found, where is that quote from? None of what I am about to say is particularly revolutionary, and I am sure many others would have popped up with much the same response. But for now, you're stuck with me! :-)

Bear in mind that Druitt DID have a known base not in the East End but considerably closer to it than Blackheath was - his chambers at 9 Kings Bench Walk, Temple (close to the tube station of the same name, if you know the capital). Now these were offices rather than residential space, but we do know that on at least one occasion Druitt used it for something more - it was the location where he chose to leave his suicide note. That in itself is hardly surprising, when you consider that when he lost his position at Valentine's School he would also have lost his accomodation. It may well be that, perhaps on the pretence of working late, Monty managed to bed down at Kings Bench Walk short-term, until he found a new address, and/ or of course to use it for night-time forays East...

Kings Bench Walk is a little under 2 miles from the heart of Whitechapel, or between 30-40 minutes walk at an average pace - and remember Druitt was a fit sportsman, so we can probably shave a little off that time. Even Blackheath, for the record, is only about a 2 hour walk away, a distance which would probably not have seemed insurmountable to a Victorian, witness Hutchinson's walking back from Romford or the journey of Eddowes and Kelly back from Hunton in Kent. Now there is a massive social gap between those names and Druitt, whereby they simply had no choice, but I think we can risk a fairly sweeping statement that to Victorians in general walking large distances was seen as more acceptable than it is to most people today. Now walking 2 hours following a murder is probably pushing it, but I included the detail for completeness.

What I have never been able to ascertain is the procedures for gaining admittance to Kings Bench Walk 'after hours'. Then, as now, only members of the relevant Inn of Court, or those accompanied by one, are allowed into the private space (I even had issues taking photos from outside once) and if then, as now, this necessitated someone standing guard at the entrance, then it may well be that it would have been very risky, or even plain impossible, for even a member to get in in the early hours of the morning (rather than simply gaining entry during working hours and just not leaving)- in other words we could have a D'onston-Stephenson/ Royal London Hospital situation. I tend to believe, however, until it is proved otherwise, that a Barrister would have been granted the privilege of their rank and not questioned too closely about their movements or 'working' hours.

The main objection to Druitt on logistical grounds is usually based on the timings for the journeys we know he WOULD have had to make all the way to Blackheath, in order to play cricket, on at least two occasions (if memory serves) this was on the day following a 'Ripper' murder. However this does not mean he had to schlep all the way back to Blackheath in one go on foot, if we accept that he used KBW as some form of base then he could easily have made it back there and laid low until the daytime rail service began. The timings are tight in the Chapman murder, but not impossibly so.

For the record I don't think Druitt was the murderer. Honest.

[Sickert]

I would just like to quote this:
Did Druite, then, have a known base from which he might have made murderous forays into the East End? MCC records, which give his address as 9 Eliot Place, Blackheath, suggest that he was a resident master at George Valentine's school. But the absence of an all-night train service between London and Blackheath makes it difficult to believe that the Ripper could have operated out of a base there.

[jason_c]

Its hard to imagine Phil Tufnell being able to punch a wet sponge. I suppose a bellboy was about his limit.

Roy Gilchrist sounds a bit nasty.

[Phil Carter]

Incidents

Hello all,

As jason has ventured into the lesser degree of criminal incident or minor crime, here are the following well-known incidents that have nothing to do with cricketers being serial killers:-:


In 1967 Roy Gilchrist argued with his wife during which time he branded her face with a hot iron. He was found guilty and sentenced to three months probation.

In 1988 Navjot Singh Sidhu beat a man to death following a road rage incident. In 2006 he was sentenced to three years in prison for 'culpable homicide not amounting to murder'. However the Supreme Court of India stayed his conviction in January 2007.

In 1993 Wasim Akram, Mushtaq Ahmed and Waqar Younis are arrested in Grenada and charged with possession of marijuana. The charges were later dropped.

In 1994 Stephen Fleming, Matthew Hart and Dion Nash are fined and suspended after admitting to smoking cannabis at a barbecue.
....Phil Tufnell, while on tour in Australia, punched a hotel bellboy who he had argued with over the colour of the towels in his room, and then proceeded to trash the room until he was detained by hotel security and police. Tufnell spent the night in jail.

In 1996 Geoffrey Boycott assaults a 45 year old woman in France for which he received a three month suspended sentence in 1998.

In 1997 Phil Tufnell is handed an 18 month suspended sentence and fined ₤1000 for failing to turn up for a random drug test after a Middlesex Championship match.
...Retired Warwickshire allrounder Paul Smith admitted to long usage of cocaine and was banned for 2 years.
... Keith Piper tested positive for cannabis. He was banned for one match and fined ₤500.

In 1998 Saqlain Mushtaq and Mohammad Akram were alleged to have been involved in a bar brawl during Pakistan's tour of South Africa.

In 1999 Shivnarine Chanderpaul shot a policeman in Georgetown with a revolver after he mistook him for a burglar. The officer received a wound on his left hand, but Chanderpaul was not charged due to the mistake.
...Peter Roebuck is accused of caning three South African teenage cricketers who he had been coaching. In 2001 he was found guilty and received a 12 month suspended sentence.
....Makhaya Ntini is arrested and charged with rape, but he is acquitted on appeal.
....Ricky Ponting was involved in a nightclub brawl at Kings Cross for which he received a $5,000 fine, a five match suspension and a black eye.

In 2001 Herschelle Gibbs, Andre Nel, Justin Kemp, Paul Adams and Roger Telemachus are fined for smoking marijuana during South Africa's tour of the West Indies.

In 2003 Shane Warne is sent home after failing an earlier drug test, just prior to the start of the 2003 Cricket World Cup. Warne was sent home after a drug test during the one-day series in Australia earlier in the year returned a positive result for a banned diuretic.
....Kaushal Lokuarachchi crashed his car into a bus stand at Colombo, killing a woman and critically injuring her son.
....Shafiuddin Ahmed accused of setting his girlfriend on fire for which she received burns to 70% of her body.
....Andre Nel was arrested and charged with drink driving after being pulled over by police in Australia.

In 2004 Runako Morton is arrested after stabbing his cousin in the chest during a family dispute. He escaped with just a reprimand.
....Warwickshire all-rounder Graham Wagg was banned for 15 months after admitting to cocaine use and he was also fired from his county club.
....Ed Giddins was fined £5,000 and banned for five years by the ECB after being found guilty of placing a £7,000 bet on a county fixture.

In 2005 Suresh Perera is arrested for assault following a brawl outside his home in Sri Lanka. Two men were taken to hospital.
....An unnamed Pakistani cricketer is accused of raping a woman in their team hotel during a tour of Australia.
....Dermot Reeve resigned from his role as Channel 4 commentator after he admits to a cocaine use problem, also confessing that he was high when commentating during the England v New Zealand test at Lord's in 2004.
....Keith Piper, who failed a drug test in 1997, failed his second drug test and was banned for the remainder of the season.

In 2006 Mark Vermeulen is charged with arson after the Zimbabwean Cricket Academy and boardroom are destroyed by fire. He was acquitted of the charges.
....Yuvraj Singh is alleged to have assaulted a guest at his birthday party.
....News of the World tabloid newspaper published pictures of Shane Warne standing in his underpants with a pair of 25-year-old models, as well as explicit text messages allegedly from Warne.

In 2007 Moin Khan, the former Pakistan captain and wicketkeeper, was freed on bail after a brief detention over a complaint that he beat up his wife at home. His wife says that he was drunk while beating her. She also said that Moin repeatedly kept on accusing of her of adultery. Unable to talk properly due to the bruises she suffered, she told that this was not the first time Moin had physically abused her. “He usually beats me whenever he is drunk but last night it just got too much,” said the battered woman who further revealed that her left shoulder joint was dislocated during the beating.
....Liam Plunkett crashed his car into another and is charged with drink driving. He was banned from driving for 20 months.
....Maninder Singh was arrested for possession of 1.5 grams of cocaine.
....Narsingh Deonarine was detained in England for the alleged rape of a 16 year old girl, however he was later released.
....Shoaib Akhtar is sent home from the Twenty20 World Cup after striking teammate Mohammad Asif with a cricket bat.
.... Daryl Tuffey was caught drink-driving. He was disqualified from driving for six months.
....Mehrab Hossain is arrested after his ex wife accused him of assaulting her.

In 2008 Xavier Marshall and Tonito Willett tested positive in the drug tests conducted during a two-week camp in Antigua in August. They were among the 32 players named in a provisional Stanford Superstars squad to face England in the Stanford 20/20 for 20, a winner-take-all US$20 million match on November 1.The Stanford Superstars went on to win against England which meant both of these players missed out on US$1 million as a result.

In 2009 The Sri Lankan cricket team was attacked by terrorists during their tour in Pakistan.
....Former England bowler Chris Lewis was jailed for 13 years with a tariff of nine years for attempting to smuggle 3.37 kilograms of liquid cocaine (street value of £140,000) into the UK from St Lucia.
....West Australian batsman Luke Pomersbach was charged with failing to stop after two crashes, failing to accompany police, drink-driving, assaulting police, obstructing police and escaping legal custody following a drunken drive in Perth's western suburbs. He pleaded guilty, was fined $3,500, and suspended indefinitely by Western Australia.
....Jerome Taylor is arrested outside a local bar in Jamaica for improper conduct, assaulting a police officer, and resisting arrest.

In 2010 Several Indian players were involved in an altercation after being eliminated from the 2010 ICC World Twenty20
....Zulqarnain Haider goes missing right before the 5th One Day International vs South Africa in Abu Dhabi, on the grounds of receiving anonymous death threats. He later is found in the UK and announces his retirement from international cricket.

sources:-

Wikipedia
Cricinfo
MacKay, Duncan-The Guardian newspaper
The Age (Melbourne).
BBC News.
CNN.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
NineMSN.
thelondonpaper
Wisden Almanac (various)


best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello jason,

He was never charged with any crime. Ian Botham was suspended for two months from playing cricket after admitting to possessing and smoking cannabis in 1986. He was however, charged in Australia with assaulting a passenger on the flight to Perth. He was bailed and fined $800.

best wishes

Phil

[jason_c]

Phil,

Ian Botham - marijuana user, 1986.

[Phil Carter]

Crime, murder, suicide etc in cricket

Hello all,

Crime, suicide, murder and unusual deaths of professional cricketers are not always a game related "given" as the list below shows. Neil Bell has correctly pointed out 90% of the game is played in the mind. It is very much a "thinking man's game", and one which needs concentration at all times even when nothing is apparently happening at any given period during the game. I once myself described it as "chess with people".

As far as being a killer vis a vis being a cricketer is concerned, and all other aspects of major crime, and even suicide, I post herewith something I posted on jtr forums yesterday:-


Cricketers who have committed a crime:-

Leslie Hylton -Murdered his wife. He was executed by hanging.

Terry Jenner -Embezzlement. He was sentenced to 6½ years and released after 18 months.

Vallance Jupp -Manslaughter. He was sentenced to 9 months but served only half his sentence.

Garth Le Roux -Tax fraud. He was sentenced to 4 years.

Warrington Phillip -Murder. He was sentenced to Life Imprisonment. Has been found guilty.

Lorrie Wilmot -Rape . He was sentenced to12 years, three of them suspended. Committed suicide before he was due to be imprisoned.

NB: It is noted here that Montague J. Druitt was an amateur cricketer, not a professional cricketer.



Cricketers who were murdered:-


Edward Wright -Murdered in riots at Jamaica on 23/11/1904

Claude Tozer -Shot and killed by his deranged mistress on 21/12/1920

Robert Makant -Murdered whilst on duty in Kurdistan on 18/6/1922

Jeff Stollmeyer -Shot five times and beaten about the head by intruders at
his home in Port-of-Spain on 10/9/1989

Muni Lal -Murdered along with his wife by burglars who broke into
his home on 8/1/1990

Haseeb-ul-Hasan -Murdered by an unknown gunman on 18/4/1990

William Strydom -Shot during a robbery on 20/2/1995

Ashley Harvey-Walker -Shot dead in a Johannesburg bar on 28/4/1997

Nezam Hafiz -Died in the terrorist attack on New York's World Trade
Center on 11/9/2001

Mark Parker -Killed in the Bali bombings on 12/10/2002

Rahatullah -Shot dead on 11/2/ 2008



Cricketers who were possibly murdered:-

Percy Hardy -Found dead on the floor of a lavatory at King's Cross station
with his throat cut and a blood-stained knife by his
side on 9/11/1916. (Somerset C.C. history maintains
Hardy committed suicide rather than be sent back to World
War I battlefields)

Jack Marsh -Killed in a street brawl. The assailants were charged with
manslaughter but acquitted on 25/5/1916

Rajesh Peter -Found dead in his flat in New Delhi in suspicious
circumstances on 16/11/1995

Tertius Bosch -Believed to have died from Guillain-Barre syndrome, but post
mortem suggested that he was poisoned on 14/2/2000

David Hookes -Died of head injuries after a brawl outside a Melbourne pub.
(There were claims that it was murder, but the charge that
was brought was manslaughter and the person charged
—bouncer Zdravko Micevic—was found not guilty) on
9/1/2004

Bob Woolmer -Found dead in his hotel room in Kingston, Jamaica during the
2007 cricket World Cup. Originally believed to have been
strangled but the investigation returned an open verdict,
neither ruling out strangulation or death by natural causes



Cricketers who committed suicide:-

David Bairstow on 5/1/1998 aged 46 hanged himself at his home (having
suffered bouts of depression) in Marton-cum-Grafton, Yorkshire.
He had worries about money and the health of his wife.

Jim Burke on 2/2/1979 aged 48. He hid personal and financial worries. In
February 1979, while a member of the regular ABC commentary team
for The Ashes Tests, he bought a shotgun from a Sydney store and killed
himself with it.

Fen Cresswell on 10/1/1966 aged 50. He was found dead in Blenheim, NZ

Aubrey Faulkner on 10/9/1930 aged 48. He began to suffer from
extended periods of depression, possibly exacerbated from the malaria he
contracted during the war. In a small store room at his cricket school,
Faulkner gassed himself. His suicide note read "I'm off to another world,
via the bat room."

Barry Fisher on 6/4/1980 aged 56. He committed suicide after his
marriage had failed.

Harold Gimblett on 30/3/1978 aged 63. Overdose of prescription drugs
(He suffered from long term depression and mental illness)

George Griffith on 8/5/1879 aged 45

Glen Hall on 26/6/1987 aged 49

Jack Iverson on 24/10/1973 aged 58. Gunshot wound to the chest.
He suffered from depression and ill health.

Danny Kelleher on 12/12/1995 aged 29. Took an overdose of Prozac

Joe Partridge on 6/6/1988 aged 55

Harry Pickett on 3/10/1907 aged 45 Pickett disappeared on 27/9/1907
and a week later was found washed ashore on Aberavon beach.His death
is listed as suicide.

Arthur Povey on 13/2/46 aged 59 at his home in Tonbridge, Kent.

Albert Relf on 26/3/1937 aged 62 shot himself at Wellington, apparently
depressed by the illness of his wife.

R. C. Robertson-Glasgow on 4/3/1965 aged 63. He committed suicide
during a snowstorm whilst in the grip of melancholic depression.

Mark Saxelby on 12/10/2000 aged 31 ingesting weedkiller; he was
suffering from depression.

William Scotton on 9/7/1893 aged 37 having lost his place in the
Nottinghamshire 1st XI, became depressed and killed himself.

Arthur Shrewsbury on 19/5/1903 aged 47 after his final playing season.
The following spring, incorrectly believing he had an incurable disease, he
shot himself at his sister's home in Gedling, Nottinghamshire.

Andrew Stoddart on 4/4/1915 aged 52. He found life difficult after leaving
cricket. In failing health and burdened by debt he shot himself in London.

Vincent Tancred on 3/6/1904 aged 28. Following an evening playing
billiards with friends at a club in Johannesburg, Tancred borrowed a
revolver and returned to the hotel in Roodepoort where he was staying.
There, Tancred apparently shot himself in the head three times and was
found unconscious by his brother Bernard, who had rushed to the hotel
upon hearing of the revolver in Vincent’s possession. Tancred died four
hours later.

Albert Trott on 30/7/1914 aged 41. He wrote his will on the back of a
laundry ticket, leaving his wardrobe and £4 to his landlady. Shortly
afterwards, he shot himself.

Tom Wills on 2/5/1880 aged 44. He was admitted to the Royal
Melbourne Hospital at the age of 44 suffering from extreme alcoholism.
Delusional from induced alcohol withdrawal, Wills escaped from the
hospital on the 1 May 1880, returned home and the next day stabbed
himself to death with a pair of scissors in his Heidelberg home.

Lorrie Wilmot on 29/2/2004 aged 60. In 2000 he was convicted of raping
a 13 year old girl. After a long appeals process he was sentenced to 12
years behind bars with 3 of them suspended. He committed suicide by
shooting himself on his farm near Grahamstown. Although it is likely that
he took his own life due to his impending imprisonment, he was also
rumoured to be suffering from an incurable disease.

Arthur Woodcock on 14/5/1910 aged 44. He died from 'self-administered
poison'.


NB Of the 24 instances listed above, the average age of suicide was 48.25 years.


It is very interesting to note therefore that Montague J. Druitt, who apparently committed suicide, would, if added to the lists above, (tenuous, as this list is of the more famous and professional cricketers) have only have been in the company of one known cricketing person, Lorrie Wilmot, should Druitt have committed a crime of any sort, before he apparently committed suicide (in reference to his supposed trouble at the boys school he worked).



sources:-

A History of Yorkshire CCC Tony Woodhouse (Helm 1989)
Bradford's Own, by Derek A.J.Lister (Sutton 2004)
Silence of the Heart: Cricket Suicides, by D. Frith (Mainstream Publishing, London, 2001).
Mystery Spinner: The Story of Jack Iverson by Haigh, (Gideon Melbourne: Text Pub 1999)
The Times online http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...icle705522.ece
The Cricketing Brothers Tancred, Part 2 by B.Hall & H.Schulze (2000)
The Cricket Statistician, No. 112. Association of Cricket Statisticians and Historians, Cardiff.
Trott, George Henry Stevens by Percival Serle, (Angus and Robertson 1949).
Give me Arthur, A Biography of Arthur Shrewsbury by Peter Wynne Thomas (Barker, 1985)
Cricinfo
1894 Wisden Almanac
1907 Wisden Almanac
1917 Wisden Almanac
1923 Wisden Almanac
1990 Wisden Almanac
1991 Wisden Almanac
1996 Wisden Almanac
1997 Wisden Almanac
1998 Wisden Almanac
2003 Wisden Almanac
ACSSI Yearbook 1989-90
Sunshine, Sixes and Cider, by David Foot (David & Charles, 1986)
Harold Gimblett, Tormented Genius of Cricket, by David Foot (William Heinemann Ltd 1982)
Australian Dictionary of Biography
AFP.com
Wikipedia


Hope this helps.

So, in answer to the title of this thread:- "Does Playing Cricket Make You Immune From Being A Serial Killer? " the short and simple answer has to be "no".. but it must be noted that there hasn't been one from the professional ranks in the history of the game, ever. Only two have ever committed murder. Only one has been charged with manslaughter.


Best wishes

Phil

[Chris]

Yes they did look into it, and at the time of at least 2 of the murders he was playing cricket miles from London.

If you're going to carry on making these claims, please give us the details. If you don't have any details, please stop making the claims.

[Jonathan H]

Jack the Cricketer?

I see it similarly but also differently.

I agree that Ostrog is out, and that Kosminski is very unlikely to be the fiend.

In fact, I think, like many, that Aaron Kosminski's asylum records and the Swanson Marginalia are evidence for his complete lack of anything to with the Whitechapel Mystery.

That Macnaghten chose and exploited him for his own purposes, ruthlessly though essentially harmlessly since the real figure who lay behind 'Kosminski', a.k.a. the Polish Jew suspect, was never discovered -- and never could be discovered at the time. Martin Fido, in 1987, initially did not find him trawling though asylum records, and only stumbled upon 'Aaron Kosminski' by accident -- and still believed, and believes, this could not be Anderson's original Polish Jew suspect.

I do not, however, agree about the cricket games acting as an alibi for Druitt. He may not have been the murderer, but those matches by no means act as iron-clad alibis for the theory of an innocent also shanghaied into the case.

[Abby Normal]

Yes they did look into it, and at the time of at least 2 of the murders he was playing cricket miles from London.

Agreed.
and the other 3 he was confirmed at the White Castle in Hackensack, NJ eating sliders. Druitt is out. Ostrog is definitely out. and Kominski is hangen on by a thread.

[Sickert]

But of course people have looked into this possibility quite carefully, and Druitt doesn't have anything close to an alibi for any of the murders.

Yes they did look into it, and at the time of at least 2 of the murders he was playing cricket miles from London.