Druitt info

[MrTwibbs]

I'm after some guidance please. I've currently undertaken the task to start writing a book on JTR and doing as much research as possible.This may take a few years so i'm not in a rush. I've managed to get hold of winchester college and a couple of pictures of Druitt and an article from 1972 written by the former headmaster
I'm hopefully going to get the Cutbush records also soon and contacted london archives for files. I've also been in touch with Blackheath CC and Hackney Council re:Brook asylum which no longer exists.

The Administrator at the Wimbourne cemetary has confirmed Druitt is buried there so i might visit but will only be able to next year as i dont have any more hols left. Bournemouth not far from me really.

I was sent the following information from Wimbourne cemetary about Druitt and wondered is his date of death correct? I was of the understanding he died on the 1st December? and the mention of all body parts removed isn't accurate is it?

Details that I have from our 150th Celebration are as follows:- Montague John Druitt
Born 15th August 1857 Died 4th December 1888 Aged 31 Years
Section 8, to west of Chapel.

Montague Druitt was the second son of William Druitt, Wimborne’s leading surgeon. The Druitt’s lived at Westfield House which still stands. but has been converted to Apartments. Montague Druitt was educated at Winchester and Oxford and became a barrister on the Western Circuit and Winchester Sessions. He also started, but not completed, studies on becoming a surgeon. The Jack the Ripper murders are the most famous in the history of crime; they were never solved, countless books have been written about them and solutions offered, and all had body parts surgically removed. Apparently Sir Melville MacNaughten of Scotland Yard was convinced Druitt was the Ripper and on a confidential memo says “he was sexually insane and from private information I have little doubt but that his own family believed him to have been the murderer.” Druitt’s mother died incurably insane and Druitt drowned himself in the Thames shortly after the last murder. Apparently the police believed Druitt to be the murderer and considered the Ripper Case closed after Druitt’s suicide; certainly the dreadful killings perpetrated by "Jack the Ripper" were never repeated beyond Druitt's death. Was this coincidence or conjecture?"

[belinda]

You've probably already seen this about Druitt

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Poisonous-Lies-Croydon-Arsenic-Unsolved/dp/0752453378/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2D96TUKRNR97T&colid=2W2LTGV6013B3

Have you got a definite suspect in mind or are you going through them generally?

I don't think Druitt did it.

[MrTwibbs]

You've probably already seen this about Druitt

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Poisonous-Lies-Croydon-Arsenic-Unsolved/dp/0752453378/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2D96TUKRNR97T&colid=2W2LTGV6013B3

Have you got a definite suspect in mind or are you going through them generally?

I don't think Druitt did it.

Hi
Thanks for the link.
I do have a suspect in mind (Cutbush) but am awaiting the files from Reading before I get down to it.
I'm taking the angle of police incompetence and misinformation played a big part in much of the finger pointing, but at the same time i'm going to do my best to show that Druitt and some others did not have the profile of a murderer. I am to start off my chapter describing Victorian England, the influx of Jews into Whitechapel, talk about police measures and psychology and medical methods of the time, and obviously describe each of the victims, suspects and perhaps my own theories.

I truly believe Druitt is innocent and I want to do my best to show this.I'm also a big cricket fan so perhaps I'm a bit biased.us cricketers have to stick together.lol
Macnaughton suggesting three other suspects in response to the Sun's article seems all very suspicious imo, especially as it was an internal memo. Doesn't make any sense why he would then claim he strongly suspected Druitt due to private info and then go on to mention he had the documents but destroyed them. if he's done that then it just proves further how rubbish he was and of course you only destroy something if you have something to hide. Perhaps these documents did not exist and if they did they were probably proof that Druitt was depressed and not homicidal which of course would blow Macnaughton's scapegoating tactics.


if it doesn't get published then what the heck doesn't matter.

[m_w_r]

Mr Twibbs,

Wow.

Where to start? I can't fairly disapprove of your ambition, but I don't think it'd be unfair to suggest that you do the research before deciding who's guilty and who's innocent. Conventional wisdom suggests that one normally begins with the evidence and finishes by deriving conclusions from it. But this is Ripperology, and we're haunted by those who start at the wrong end, so it's not as if you won't be joining a crowd. And we all like to fit in.

The police incompetence angle is more complicated than you might expect, and one of my pet hates is the tendency for people to think that an aspect of their incompetence was their ignorance of a murderer's typical "profile". There weren't such things, so one might as well accuse them of being incompetent for failing to send the helicopter up. Surely an aerial view of this sort would have been helpful on the nights concerned?

And let's have a bit of rigour. Unless I've got everything round the wrong way, Belinda's link refers to Diane Janes's recent book about the Croydon Poisonings. I haven't read it, but I can't think of a way in which it links to Druitt, and I don't think that anyone can work it out from the page to which she provided the link, as the word Druitt isn't actually on that page. So while you were very polite to say, "Thanks for the link," it might have been a bit more to your advantage, as the prospective author with a substantial research task ahead of him, to say, "Thanks for the link, but I'm afraid I can't see how this has anything to do with Druitt. Can you enlighten me?" If you can't sort out what is relevant from what is irrelevant, or if you're too polite to do so, I'm afraid your book will be the thing that suffers. Of course, you don't have to abandon politeness entirely if you want to ask the difficult questions which will be fundamental to your project, but asking difficult questions of others requires the responsible author to ask the difficult questions of himself - at this point, your conclusion-first approach inevitably comes under the spotlight, so be prepared for a bit of soul-searching.

Still, as you point out, if it doesn't get published, it doesn't matter that much to you, so fair enough. But if you did want to publish it, I think that adopting a more sensitive approach to your topic would certainly pay off.

Just friendly advice.

Regards,

Mark

[Robert]

Hi Mr Twibbs

I really do advise you to read all you can about Druitt - books, magazine articles, message board postings. Of course, it's in the nature of the situation that things are evolving - sometimes new info is added, necessitating corrections or reassessments.

What was that about Druitt's commencing surgical studies? Was that from the cemetery? I've never heard of Druitt's having studied medicine.

[MrTwibbs]

Hi Mr Twibbs

I really do advise you to read all you can about Druitt - books, magazine articles, message board postings. Of course, it's in the nature of the situation that things are evolving - sometimes new info is added, necessitating corrections or reassessments.

What was that about Druitt's commencing surgical studies? Was that from the cemetery? I've never heard of Druitt's having studied medicine.

Good advice, thanks to you both for taking the time to reply. I'm a very polite chap and as i'm new to the forums I feel I need to be step cautiously.

My work is still in its very early stages obviously. What you mentioned about Druitt's medical studies is a good point and I also don't recall seeing this stated anywhere. My other port of call could be Oxford where it is mentioned he studied. Perhaps this could yield further information.

as for the book, yes you are right. I looked at it and thought there was a link somewhere in there but could find none.I was going to google for more information but then read your response. I did find this however

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ripper-Suspect-Secret-Montague-Druitt/dp/0750943297/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282338559&sr=8-1

[Robert]

Hi Mr Twibbs

Here's the Casebook review :

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/ripper-suspect-the-secret-lives-of-montague-druitt.html

And here's a link to a dissertation.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-west-of-england.html

It's worth ransacking this site, there's a terrific amount on here, and on the archive discs.

[Johnr]

Don 't Be Too Disheartened By The Initially Robust Advice Mr T...

Hello Mr Twibbs,

Because most Ripper researchers are initially fired to their new-found enthusiasm by a spark of inspiration or two, and feeling sure these new facts must surely lead to the unlocking of this sensational series of murders, I think I can see how you are being led towards becoming an author.

BUT: As m_w_r advised, -and so did Lewis Carroll in "Alice In Wonderland":

"the evidence first verdict last"

However, we all need that initial frisson: that inspiration: that spark of realisation, to fire us up to become a student of the Ripper crimes first, then progress to writing articles next, then .... the book.

Now, if you really want to make Old Whizzened Ripperologists sit up and take notice, despite your primary interest in Cutbush - (quite reasonable, IMHO)-,
see what you can find out down at Winchester College about evidence Druitt firstly considered studying medicine.
If you find anything concrete about that, you will be assured on some fame for that.
Next, study whether any prostitutes were murdered in Druitt's time at Oxford. Surely a logical next step.
And if you find no evidence after a robust search, then.. look more closely at Cutbush.
This is only my opinion. Good on you for posting of your honest intentions to begin with. You might just want to concentrate on Cutbush alone.

JOHN RUFFELS.

[John Savage]

Hi Mr. Twibbs,

As Robert says, there is a great deal of information about Druit in the many books already published as well as on this site. There used to be even more information on the message boards which was sadly lost in a crash a coupleof years ago, the good news is that you can buy a CD containing much of this lost information from this site.

As for the exact date of Druits death, there are conflicting reports, but I can offer you the following transcript from the National Probate Calendars 1891:

"1891
Druit Montague John
Personal Estate £2,600 2s 0d.
24 July administration of the personal estate of Montague John Druitt late of 9 Kings-Bench-Walk Temple in the City of London barrister at law a bachelor who was last seen alive on 3 December 1888 and was found drowned in the River Thames at Chiswick in the County of Middlesex on 31 December 1888 was granted at the Principal Registry to William Harvey Druitt of Bournemouth in the County of Southampton gentleman the brother."

Rgds
John

[Roy Corduroy]

I do have a suspect in mind (Cutbush) but am awaiting the files from Reading before I get down to it.

...if it doesn't get published then what the heck doesn't matter.

Good morning Mr Twibbs,

I'm impressed. I like it when a new person is full of enthusiam. But why wait? You have a great advantage of being there in Great Britain. If I were going to write a book about Thomas Cutbush, I would camp out at the Southwark Archives and find out everything I could about the city he grew up in. Describe in detail the doings at that time.

The best books stay on subject. Like Cornwell and the Diary, neither of which I agree with, but as books they are far more interesting reads than hashing through theories pro and con, yea and nay.

In any case, best of luck to you,

Roy

ps - If it doesn't get published, we'll all still be here for you on Casebook, parsing the yen and yang of it.

[belinda]

Cutbush is interesting and how ironic is his name


I think Druitt saw everything crumbling around him poor man.His only creditential seems to be the timing of his body being found.

[Robert]

Monty wasn't the only barrister feeling low. According to a press report, Lumley Matthews, nephew to the Home Secretary, gashed his throat terribly with a razor, then sat down and wrote an account of what he'd just done. Then he tore at the wound with his hands to widen it, and lay in a bath of blood all night, after which, finding himself still alive, he jumped from his window. He was taken to hospital.

This was mid-November 1888.

[MrTwibbs]

Hi Belinda,

Yes that is quite ironic about Cutbush's name. I actually made reference to it to my other half a few days ago. We kinda joked at the irony of it.

Does anyone know where I can get hold of the letter Druitt wrote? It appears to be about two pages long and I saw it on the Vic reeves documentary on JTR. reeves examines it but doesn't read it out. I paused the video and could see Druitt had written something along the lines of "i haven't been feeling too well of late but I will get better". I have the JTR sourcebook but no reference to it in there as far as i'm aware.
Is this new evidence or has it been conveniently or accidently forgotten about?

[MrTwibbs]

Thanks to m_j_r I now have a copy of the Druitt letter. I've also been studying a few cricket scorecards and he was an opening bowler and usually batted anywhere from 6 down to number 10. He was a bit of an all rounder and did score in the region of 40-60 on occasion. And wow his bowling was excellent, he took 10 wickets in a match twice from the records i've seen. This is an excellent accomplishment in any form of the game whether now or 100 years ago. He played against the Hearne brothers and this is a great cricketing family. I believe George Hearne played for England.
If Monte had taken his cricket more seriously he could have played for Kent. As for comments i've read that his form fell away in 1887 well anyone who plays cricket will know that in order to be consistent you need constant practice, match play and your mind must be in it. Give Druitt's depression, having to do 2 jobs i.e. teacher and "special pleader" no wonder his form fell away so emphasis cannot be put on his playing form.

I';m going to get his handwriting independently examined. Luckily my neighbour is a very famous former member of CID so will ask him initially for his contacts in the yard to look it over if possible.

[MrTwibbs]

I contacted Blackheath CC which is local to me, and their response to my questions on whether they had any pictures, descriptions of him or other information was terse to say the least

"he was a member, long time ago nothing to see"

The person that replied managed to tell me two things I already knew as in he was a member and it was a long time ago.

Good to see the English language is well used. Am surprised they have no other information or pictures