Some info on Lionel Druitt

[Mayerling]

I look forward to the article on that pamphlet John, It makes sense more sense that it was about Deeming than Druitt. When I wrote an essay years ago called THE ORIGINAL SUSPECT I discussed the Deeming - Ripper theory. It is not a very convincing one, but the Australians embraced it in 1892.

[Adam Went]

Hey John and Mayerling,

Well it certainly makes more sense for it to have been related to Deeming, as the case against him in the early 1890's was quite a sensational one. He was hung in Melbourne in May 1892, during which time Lionel Druitt was living and practicing in Tasmania. As i've said before, Lionel was already in Australia and had been for a couple of years when the Ripper murders took place, and he never saw his cousin again - it's far fetched at best to believe that Lionel would have heard enough about the case from the other side of the world to write a pamphlet about it implicating his cousin - why not one of Monty's relatives that was still in England if they wanted to write about it?

Cheers,
Adam.

[Mayerling]

Hey John and Mayerling,

Well it certainly makes more sense for it to have been related to Deeming, as the case against him in the early 1890's was quite a sensational one. He was hung in Melbourne in May 1892, during which time Lionel Druitt was living and practicing in Tasmania. As i've said before, Lionel was already in Australia and had been for a couple of years when the Ripper murders took place, and he never saw his cousin again - it's far fetched at best to believe that Lionel would have heard enough about the case from the other side of the world to write a pamphlet about it implicating his cousin - why not one of Monty's relatives that was still in England if they wanted to write about it?

Cheers,
Adam.

Adam, Thanks for your response. I tried to write a fuller response to you, but again this website has a built - in problem with long descriptions that I don't understand at all. I was trying (in my discussion) to explain why I thought Farson and Cullen ignored the issue of Deeming being the possible subject of the mysterious pamphlet. Basically it was that Farson concentrated only on Druitt (it was easier than Osrog or Kosminsky of the three names on that memorandum back in the 1950s), and prevented him from considering other candidates (like Deeming) for the figure described in the pamphlet. Cullen based his dismissal of Deeming on a book by L.C. Douthwaite written in 1928 called MASS MURDER, that mistakenly extended the actual Ripper murders to that of Frances Coles (who was killed while Deeming was in prison in 1891). He did not want other suspects but Druitt, who was easily traceable (in comparison). As a result he too did not seriously consider Osrog or Kominsky.

Jeff

[Adam Went]

Hey Jeff,

Good post, and I think i'm pretty much in agreement with you.
Deeming has always been a bit of an outsider as a suspect, whereas Druitt has been more prominent. The two names are similar enough to be mistaken, so presuming that to be the case, what you end up with is a distortion of the facts and a red herring which we're still talking about now.

I've discovered a few letters written by Lionel Druitt, and it seems both from those and the activities he participated in outside of being a doctor, he was a man of many interests and had his say on topics outside of his own field (even though, in other areas, he seems to be more elusive.) Despite this, i'm yet to come across any mention at all by him of Jack the Ripper, despite the case being heavily publicised around the world - perhaps John Ruffels can clarify if he has found anything of that nature which I haven't, but it's an interesting point to bear in mind.

M.J. Druitt has always been a convenient suspect, and so he was in regards to this pamphlet as well.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Johnr]

Lionel Druitt and Jack the Ripper

Yes a good post Jeff.Thanks.

Adam,

I have a book full of press references to Lionel Druitt: his violin playing, his lay preaching, his dramatic treatment of snakebite using strychnine. His amateur theatricals.
His lectures on the evils of Socialism, made to counter the influence of visiting English Socialist, Ben Tillett....
But no-where, could I find him holding forth on the East End murders.

His wife Susan, was very active in local communities, donating money and prizes, helping run fetes, and judging prizewinners at church bazaars.
Dr Lionel was also active in local Masonic lodges. And on hospital committees.
His wife liked to be known as "Mrs Doctor Druitt".

Their daughters -well two of them- were sent to be educated in England.
There they stayed with Dr Lionel's sisters, Emily, and I think, Isabella, wife of Major Horace Hobart-Hampden (youngest son of the Earl of Buckingham).
Lionel's daughter,Sally, married an English army officer.
The wedding at St George's, Campden Hill, was celebrated by the Reverend F.D. Vaughan ,a cousin of the bride. (He of course, was married to Montague Druitt's younger sister, Edith). THe wedding happened in 1916.

I tell you all this to indicate my doubt such an upwardly mobile family would even contemplate for one minute claiming familial links with Jack the Ripper!

JOHN RUFFELS.

[Adam Went]

John:

Thanks for the info, I figured if anybody would have uncovered such a mention of JTR it would have been you, so that should be fairly conclusive I would have thought.

His wife seems to have been quite good at crafts as well, I found mention of her at horticultural fairs in 1895 and 1896, having won several prizes in different categories, including pyrography (burning artistic designs into wood) and wine-making.....I posted one of those up on the Lionel Druitt thread over on JTR Forums. She was certainly referred to as "Mrs. L. Druitt" in those instances also.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Mayerling]

Hi Adam and John,

Glad my post was sensible. As a side issue, can either of you tell me about Cullen being a "Marxist" writer. I have read four books of his (on Victoria and John Brown, on Maundy Gregory, on the Ripper, and on Dr. Crippen). Did he write news columns that showed a left-wing tinge?

Another thing about the failure of Cullen to note Deeming as a serious candidate instead of Druitt and the two others who were in the memorandum. Cullen mentioned (in a footnote) that a deathmask at Scotland Yard was that of Deeming, but was pointed out as "Jack the Ripper's" deathmask by the police. Since Cullen had already dismissed Deeming because of that error by Douthwaite, it never bothered him that if Douthwaite was correct the Scotland Yard staff would not have been saying that they thought Deeming was the Ripper. In short there was a fly in the ointment that Cullen never bother to consider.

Jeff

[Johnr]

Tom Cullen JTR author

Hello Adam,
Thanks for those additional details on "Mrs Dr Druitt" Adam. I agree.

Yes Jeff,

Tom Cullen apparently fled America during the MCarthy era. He sought refuge in England, where he was allowed to stay on condition he did not blot his copybook.
(Daniel Farson thought he did blot his copybook, but that's another story).

I did not know Cullen had written on such disparate topics. In my opinion, aside from his politics, I thought his book on JTR certainly had the most accurate JTR title: "Autumn Of Terror" (not "Fall Of Terror" note).I think it had a different title in the U.S.

He wrote for some U.S. syndicate. Its on the "net. I forget which.
His diverse book subjects suggest he admired McCormick, who also wrote on Maunday Gregory and JTR. But their politics would have been polls apart.
There was some suggestion Cullen collaborated with Farson at some stage. I have not confirmed this.
In the long run, in my opinion, Cullen was correct about Deeming. Scotland Yard were wrong to say Deeming's death mask was that of JTR. More accurately, one Melbourne detective and several breathless newspapers thought Deeming was Jack the Ripper.

Sex is what drove Deeming.Should this Cullen be on a Cullen/author thread Jeff? And the Deeming thread?

JOHN RUFFELS.

[Adam Went]

Just on the subject of Deeming and his death mask, having visited the Old Melbourne Gaol where Deeming was incarcerated and executed in 1892, I seem to recall that there was a copy of it in their museum somewhere? I might be confusing it with something else as it was a few years ago though.....have a few photos I took there, shall have to trawl through them again and see what I can find.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Mayerling]

Hello Adam,
Thanks for those additional details on "Mrs Dr Druitt" Adam. I agree.

Yes Jeff,

Tom Cullen apparently fled America during the MCarthy era. He sought refuge in England, where he was allowed to stay on condition he did not blot his copybook.
(Daniel Farson thought he did blot his copybook, but that's another story).

I did not know Cullen had written on such disparate topics. In my opinion, aside from his politics, I thought his book on JTR certainly had the most accurate JTR title: "Autumn Of Terror" (not "Fall Of Terror" note).I think it had a different title in the U.S.

He wrote for some U.S. syndicate. Its on the "net. I forget which.
His diverse book subjects suggest he admired McCormick, who also wrote on Maunday Gregory and JTR. But their politics would have been polls apart.
There was some suggestion Cullen collaborated with Farson at some stage. I have not confirmed this.
In the long run, in my opinion, Cullen was correct about Deeming. Scotland Yard were wrong to say Deeming's death mask was that of JTR. More accurately, one Melbourne detective and several breathless newspapers thought Deeming was Jack the Ripper.

Sex is what drove Deeming.Should this Cullen be on a Cullen/author thread Jeff? And the Deeming thread?

JOHN RUFFELS.

I am going to try to do this again - one day someone has to fix this website about it's way of not putting down information or writing.

1) I really did not know Cullen had to leave in the wake of McCarthyism. But you could just be an outspoken liberal who got suspected or disliked to have to flee America in that period.

2) Fascinating that Cullen liked McCormick. Considering the problems of using McCormick (his actual truthfulness) one wonders what he thought of the man in his later years.

3) My interest in the mask of Deeming is that Cullen did not stop to think of the reaction of the police in calling it Jack the Ripper's. If the Memorandum carried such weight the mask should have been pushed aside. It wasn't.
I have seen on a website Deeming's death mask in Melbourne. Obviously two were made, and one taken with a pair of surgical knives by Detective Cawsey (I think it was him) who went to England to show it to the British police. Had Deeming not been convicted in Australia for killing his second wife he was to be tried in England.

Reference to this discussion could be put on threads for Deeming and Cullen, but it is a tangential matter to the Lionel Druitt problem.

Jeff