Druitt's movements around murder dates

[aspallek]

Bournemouth Express

How long would it take Druitt to get to Bournemouth? Waterloo could be reached from Blackheath in less than 30 minutes, I am rather sure. Waterloo Junction was one of the London stations served by the South Eastern and if he didn't want to endure that long delay at Cannon Street, Druitt could have walked from London Bridge.

Pall Mall Gazette, 1 August, 1888:

[dougie]

whether ultimately druitt is either confirmed as having an alibi or not (though i suspect neither will be the case),the fact remains he was a prime suspect to a man in a position to know things that the rest of us can only wonder about. innocent or guilty there were reasons why he was suspected,that much is obvious. it beats me why some cant accept this ,and instead put his place on the suspects list down to the rantings of a police chief who merely flicked through the obituaries relating to the time in question, and based on that and a measure of bar room gossip made the statement " my greatest regret etc etc"......its like a police superintendent saying "weve had 3 child murders recently and we have 3 suspects ian huntley, ian brady and lord lucan"......as in druitts case there would have to be a very good reason why lord lucan would be on the list (seeing,as like druitt there was no obvious history to place him there).......it might be a hint that there was a history indeed......just that it wasnt publicly known.
regards

[blaaah]

I will readily admit that Druitt has what is very close to an alibi for the Tabram murder.

If I remember correctly, the C5 victims were originally identified in the Macnaghten memorandum. I wonder if Druitt and his movements had an influence on which victims he would attribute to JTR with such apparent certainty.

Regards,

K

[aspallek]

Macnaghten was very adamant about the C5 but I don't think that idea originated with him. His certainty concerning the C5 could have been influenced by his selection of Druitt as his main suspect.

[dougie]

if so, would that suggest, at the very least ,that druitt DID NOT have an alibi for those dates. and again if so, would it suggest that there was a lot more research done on druitt, by macnaughton and the police in general,than is commonly thought.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Dougie,

if so, would that suggest, at the very least ,that druitt DID NOT have an alibi for those dates.

It's just as likely to suggest that Macnaghten (or the police) never checked.

if so, would it suggest that there was a lot more research done on druitt, by macnaughton and the police in general,than is commonly thought.

Doubtful. Bear in mind that the only suspect of whom Macnaghten states his whereabouts were unknown was Ostrog - the fact that Ostrog was actually out of the country at the time, and that Macnaghten fails to note the fact, reveals the level of "research" underpinning the Macnaghten Memorandum left at least a little to be desired.

[aspallek]

I don't really think Macnaghten's identification of the C5 says anything about Druitt having an alibi or not. If anything, it might imply that he was aware of the fact that Druitt played cricket in Dorset the weekend before and after Tabram's murder and that he was unlikely to have been in London then. My feeling, though, is that MM's belief in the C5 is independent of his choice of suspects.

As to how much research went into these suspects, we don't really know. If we are to believe Sims, quite a bit of research went into narrowing the list down to 7 and then to 3. But I know people want to dismiss Sims out of hand. Yet, did he just make that up? Whatever research was done, it clearly missed the fact that Ostrog was incarcerated in France at the time of the murders. That's not so inexcusable, though, as police did not routinely share that information in his day. Whatever research was done had taken place some years -- at least three years -- before MM wrote his memo. Much of the details could have been forgotten.

[anna]

Hi Andy, Something that occurred to me today,regarding Monty. I was looking at a picture of him today,the one at the desk,and he just doesn't look like he has the strength of body frame to hold the dead weight of Polly or Annie,who would have had to have been leant against his own body,then lowered?Just a thought.

[aspallek]

Hello, Anna.

Although Druitt does look a bit on the frail side in the photos we have ca. 10 yrs prior to the murders, his athletic prowess is well documented. In particular, the game of "Fives" required great hand and arm strength.

[Graham]

Hi Andy, Something that occurred to me today,regarding Monty. I was looking at a picture of him today,the one at the desk,and he just doesn't look like he has the strength of body frame to hold the dead weight of Polly or Annie,who would have had to have been leant against his own body,then lowered?Just a thought.

Anna,

He's also the dead spit of the Duke of Clarence...

Graham

[aspallek]

Anna,

He's also the dead spit of the Duke of Clarence...

At one time I thought so but now that I have come to "know" both of them better I see far less resemblance.

[dougie]

Hi Dougie,It's just as likely to suggest that Macnaghten (or the police) never checked.Doubtful. Bear in mind that the only suspect of whom Macnaghten states his whereabouts were unknown was Ostrog - the fact that Ostrog was actually out of the country at the time, and that Macnaghten fails to note the fact, reveals the level of "research" underpinning the Macnaghten Memorandum left at least a little to be desired.

was ostrog a mcnaughton suspect? he implies that ostrog together with kos and monty were police suspects..not his originally, and to give mcnaughton his due it appears he had disregarded ostrog and kosminski anyhow,though he obviously didnt give his reasons why( come to that he didnt give his reasons(detailed) why he believed druitt was his man either but.....) but then again if the evidence was strong enough(in macnaughtons mind) why the need to research ostrog ,indeed how could he if,as he states ostrogs whereabouts were unknown? druitts whereabouts however were known ,in general anyhow,but living or working close to whitechapel wouldnt be enough of itself to put him at the top of the list(albeit macnaughtons list)........and if death at the appropriate time was a clue to macnaughton of the identity of the killer, then why stop at deaths by suicide? serial killers die of natural causes also...and im assuming there were many deaths from natural causes in the month(s) following the supposedly last murder. what set druitt apart? something did ,and i dont believe bar room gossip is the total answer to that conundrum.
regards

[Ben]

Hi Dougie,

what set druitt apart?

Could have been anything from the mistaken belief that Druitt was a doctor to the history of mental illness within his family.

[Sam Flynn]

what set druitt apart? something did ,and i dont believe bar room gossip is the total answer to that conundrum.

It can have been little else than something of that ilk. If Macnaghten had had any well-researched information he would have said outright that Druitt was a barrister/teacher. It's fairly obvious to me that if Macnaghten couldn't even get something as basic as Druitt's profession right, then his "private info" was in all probability based on little more than hearsay.

[dougie]

sam and ben,
mcnaughton used the phrase "said to be a doctor"..ok but isnt that rather a strange phrase to use? it can be taken to mean several things..i.e " i think he was a doctor"......"people thought he was a doctor" (which would beg the question ,first WHO thought he was, second why? ....because he posed as a doctor maybe at times?) now if mcnaughton thought druitt was a doctor ,then why did he not say exactly that?he didnt. it seems inconceivable that if mcnaughton received info from family friends etc he didnt know his true occupation. so either "said to be a doctor" means something else completely different from whats been assumed(i.e mcnaughtons,for want of a better word, ignorance).....or mcnaughton made the whole story up from start to finish. and if other sources suggest ,as they seen to ,that druitt was on a list of suspects ,possibly before mcnaughtons appearance, not to mention the "looking for him alive when he was found dead" quote, then there must be more to it.......
regards