Montague John Druitt : Whitechapel Murderer ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Jeff Leahy
    Assistant Commissioner
    • Mar 2008
    • 3740

    #136
    Willi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

    Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood,[1] with around 0.4–0.6%[2][3] of the population affected.



    What age does it normally start?
    Normally in peoples' late teens or early twenties. Although it has been known to start at other ages (older and younger!), this is more unlikely.

    A short introduction to schizophrenia, including basic biological underpinnings, probable causes, common symptoms, and current treatments.


    Onset by Age -- Three-quarters of persons with schizophrenia develop the disease between 16 and 25 years of age. -- Onset is uncommon after age 30, and rare after age 40.

    Norma, someone has been telling you porkies, it can develop late in women, some believe because of estrogen. Aaron’s symptoms are fairly typical of schizophrenia; I don’t indent to argue this point any more. Tying to argue that Paranoid Schizophrenia is a different illness is ridiculous.

    Firstly without detailed assessment of the individual it’s impossible for anyone to reach that conclusion. Secondly it’s now recognized that Schizophrenia probably covers four or five ‘syndromes’. So given what little is ‘KNOWN’ we can only state Aaron had schizophrenia we can’t be more specific. However this statement:

    “He declares that he is guided ad his movements altogether controlled by an instinct that informs his mind, he says that he knows the movements of all man kind, he refuses food from others because he is told to do so, he refuses food from others because he is told to do so, and he eats from the gutter for the same reason. Jacob Cohen, 51 Carter lane, St Paul’s EC1 says he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter and eats them, he drinks water from a tap and he refuses food from the hands of others. He took a knife and threatened the life of his sister. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years. Signed HK Houchin”,

    Would seem to be someone describing someone suffering what you are calling Paranoid Schizophrenia.

    As to your claims about violence you are making the same basic mistake that Martin Fido made.

    Schizophrenia is unlikely to be the only cause-factor if someone suffering the illness becomes violent. Schizophrenics go through phases called ‘psychotic’ episodes. Once removed from these other factors-environments schizophrenics are unlikely to be dangerous. Eventually all schizophrenic’s reach a stage called burn out where we would expect them to be ‘cut off from reality’ and harmless anyway. It is this stage that typically occurs in the thirties and is usually completely unviolent and harmless stage.

    We don’t know specifics about Aaron’s illness. It’s probable he suffered a form of schizophrenia. Given what is KNOWN it’s a POSSIBILITY that he could have committed the murders.

    Given what little is known about Druitt it’s a POSSIBILITY that he also could have committed the murders.

    All I have stated is that Aaron is a better match for what is KNOWN about post mortem mutilators or Lust killers.

    That’s it.

    Pirate

    PS. Perhaps you could supply us all with one link that suggests the average age for schizophrenia, in men, is thirty years of age? I suggest that you wont be able to unless from Mr Deloxley’s website.
    Last edited by Jeff Leahy; 03-26-2010, 11:40 AM.

    Comment

    • Natalie Severn
      Commissioner
      • Feb 2008
      • 4863

      #137
      DEFINITION from the OXFORD CONCISE MEDICAL DICTIONARY 2000

      schizophrenia

      This definition is from the above [B]


      The main types of schizophrenia are


      simple


      hebephrenic

      paranoid

      catatonic

      [and a condition exists called borderline schizophrenic ]

      and by the way,get this right,I have NEVER argued that paranoid schizophrenia is a different illness.Read my posts again about the generic term of schizophrenia.

      Only in its manifestation as hebephrenia is the onset of the disease usually at adolescence.

      It is NOT TRUE a person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia----the type that people such as Robert Napper and Sutcliffe---[The Yorkshire Ripper] suffer from, are NOT A DANGER TO OTHERS! .Sutcliffe and Napper are given "anti psychotic" drugs to control their illness.These were not available in Kosminski"s day.

      Kosminski"s COLNEY HATCH RECORDS

      BEGIN

      with the statement that

      "HE WAS NOT A DANGER TO OTHERS"


      I note that yet again you take no notice of this entry as if by totally ignoring it it will somehow "go away" and let you go on accusing an innocent man of being Jack the Ripper

      It therefore follows, as night does day, that


      WE CAN STATE WITH A LARGE DEGREE OF CERTAINTY HE WAS NOT JACK THE RIPPER!
      Last edited by Natalie Severn; 03-26-2010, 03:59 PM.

      Comment

      • j.r-ahde
        Inspector
        • Feb 2008
        • 1148

        #138
        Hello you all!

        Stan, I also gave 3.

        I just cannot consider him seriously as JtR because;

        He just doesn't fit the descriptions!

        All the best
        Jukka
        "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

        Comment

        • Jeff Leahy
          Assistant Commissioner
          • Mar 2008
          • 3740

          #139
          Originally posted by Natalie Severn View Post
          schizophrenia

          This definition is from the above [B]


          The main types of schizophrenia are


          simple


          hebephrenic

          paranoid

          catatonic

          [and a condition exists called borderline schizophrenic ]

          and by the way,get this right,I have NEVER argued that paranoid schizophrenia is a different illness.Read my posts again about the generic term of schizophrenia.

          Only in its manifestation as hebephrenia is the onset of the disease usually at adolescence.

          It is NOT TRUE a person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia----the type that people such as Robert Napper and Sutcliffe---[The Yorkshire Ripper] suffer from, are NOT A DANGER TO OTHERS! .Sutcliffe and Napper are given "anti psychotic" drugs to control their illness.These were not available in Kosminski"s day.

          Kosminski"s COLNEY HATCH RECORDS

          BEGIN

          with the statement that

          "HE WAS NOT A DANGER TO OTHERS"


          I note that yet again you take no notice of this entry as if by totally ignoring it it will somehow "go away" and let you go on accusing an innocent man of being Jack the Ripper

          It therefore follows, as night does day, that


          WE CAN STATE WITH A LARGE DEGREE OF CERTAINTY HE WAS NOT JACK THE RIPPER!
          Schizophrenics are not dangerous. Once taken from the environment and cut from external factors that caused that violence (drugs alcohol etc)

          Aaron’s records are consistent with schizophrenia.

          We cant state with any degree of ‘certainty’ that he was ‘NOT’ Jack the Ripper.

          Anymore than we can state he ‘WAS’.

          We can however State that; given what is known, it is a POSSIBILITY.

          You do on occasions come up with some old Cod.

          Pirate

          Comment

          • caz
            Premium Member
            • Feb 2008
            • 10623

            #140
            Originally posted by Pirate Jack View Post
            You do on occasions come up with some old Cod.
            I hope this is a reference to Monty's condition when he was fished out of the Thames - and not another Kodminski voice I'm hearing.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


            Comment

            • Natalie Severn
              Commissioner
              • Feb 2008
              • 4863

              #141
              By decontextualising my post above Jeff, you have deleted the heading letting people know where this information came from ie the edition of the year 2000 extract from "The Oxford Concise Medical Dictionary ".

              Comment

              • jason_c
                *
                • Feb 2008
                • 966

                #142
                Originally posted by j.r-ahde View Post
                Hello you all!

                Stan, I also gave 3.

                I just cannot consider him seriously as JtR because;

                He just doesn't fit the descriptions!

                All the best
                Jukka

                The descriptions arent too far out for it to be Druitt.

                Druitt's height im unsure of, he does seem slightly thin to be considered stocky though. However, a few witness descriptions suggest a murderer with little or no facial hair and possibly Jewish looking. Both these points describe Druitts appearance - in my opinion Druitt could pass for Jewish looking.

                Comment

                • Johnr
                  Detective
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 385

                  #143
                  Egad! Stop Shouting Norma and Jeff!!

                  Wow.

                  If one thing is clear, Casebook readers feel passionate about their chosen suspect.

                  The boards have lit up;aroused from their hitherto somnulent state.

                  But, as Lleyton Hewitt would say COME ON!!

                  The Catherine Eddows thread is three posts "More Popular" than this one!!!

                  More bold type, exclamation marks, dotted lines and red Italic Net links should do it.

                  And isn't the Survey graph at the top of the page looking phallic!

                  At least "never" is spelt correctly.



                  JOHN RUFFELS.

                  Comment

                  • Natalie Severn
                    Commissioner
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 4863

                    #144
                    Oh Well John,
                    It does happen sometimes on these boards......
                    Cheers
                    Norma

                    Comment

                    • Jeff Leahy
                      Assistant Commissioner
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 3740

                      #145
                      Originally posted by caz View Post
                      I hope this is a reference to Monty's condition when he was fished out of the Thames - and not another Kodminski voice I'm hearing.

                      Love,

                      Caz
                      X
                      How about Fish and CHIPS?

                      You know why speculation was going on about the Crawford letter. Re: Anderson / Swanson.

                      The connection between Monroe and MacNaughten rather struck me.

                      Has anyone ever given any thought to Monroe’s ‘Hot Potato’ being linked to Druitt?

                      Wouldn’t that all make more sense for the Memoranda?

                      Pirate

                      PS If a certain person tells his 'Jack the Kipper' joke again and laughs I’m going to scream!
                      Last edited by Jeff Leahy; 03-27-2010, 11:55 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Jonathan H
                        Inactive
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 2329

                        #146
                        To Pirate,

                        Monro's 'Hot Potato' is it was ever said and if it was ever that important, may have referred to Druitt being found so late [eg. he was dead] and by, of all people, a Tory politician whilst the Liberals were in power -- about which unscrupulous members of the latter might have mad hay with?

                        Comment

                        • Jeff Leahy
                          Assistant Commissioner
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 3740

                          #147
                          Hi Jonathon

                          It's not really my area. But I do know Monroe was fairly keen to get MacNaughten in his position.

                          If Monroe were the source for teh Druitt story it seems to make much more sense of the Memoranda. Apart from the inclusion of Ostrog that is?

                          Pirate

                          Comment

                          • Jonathan H
                            Inactive
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 2329

                            #148
                            Oh, well, we are not going to agree on this.

                            Listen, maybe you can help me.

                            A sub-mystery is that nobody seems to know

                            1) who found the 'West of England MP' story?

                            2) when it was found?

                            Do you have any idea?

                            One important researcher thought it was probably Keith Skinner around 1993, but he was only guessing from memory.

                            Comment

                            • Jeff Leahy
                              Assistant Commissioner
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 3740

                              #149
                              I'm certainly not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone about anything.

                              As I said Druitt's not my area, although I did have lunch and listened with great interest to Andrew Spellak (hope I have spelling correct?) last summer.

                              I was simply speculating about Monroe? I don't have anything.

                              Chris George brings up the 'Hot Potato' on the conference DVD which I produced.

                              But post MJK police investigation has my radar at present.

                              But I can certainly find out about Keith Skinner. I shall ask for you.

                              Yours Jeff

                              Comment

                              • Johnr
                                Detective
                                • Feb 2008
                                • 385

                                #150
                                I May Be Wrong But...

                                Hello Jonathan and Jeff,

                                I hope I am not getting this whole thing wrong, but I think the first person to find the "West of England Member" story (not the later excellent linking and identifying by Andrew Spallek), might have been a Cheltenham ( England) Ripperologist in the 1970's ,one Eric Hermes, I think he told me he found a similar story in the 'Gloucester Gazette' or was it 'The Cheltenham Gazette?

                                If I am wrong I apologise, perhaps Paul Begg or Keith Skinner can tell us how that story got into 'The A to Z of Jack the Ripper'?.

                                JOHN RUFFELS.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X