Montague John Druitt : Whitechapel Murderer ?

[sdreid]

It's not all that unusual for serial killers to kill themselves especially when they think they're about to be captured. Also, after they are caught.

[halomanuk]

Exactly..to go for a '1' in any of the suspect polls i am creating IMO would require evidence to be so sure.
A '2' would leave a doubt and be realistic - but a '1',to be so so definate,would surely require proof why !!

[Ben]

Hi Andy,

The words you quote were written by Macnaghten after he learned from Farquharson that the "son of a surgeon" who committed the murders committed suicide on the night of the last murder.

Indeed, but as Gareth rather astutely observed, the "suicide after awful glut" theory did seem to appeal to Macnaghten as a "generic" solution to the apparent cessation of the Whitechapel murders. Granted, he had been appraised of the circumstances surrounding Druitt by that stage, but there's no evidence that the Miller's Court "glut" in particular had any direct bearing on a hypothetical Druitt-the-Ripper's suicide. Rather, it sounds a lot like Macnaghten was filling in a few theoretical blanks of his own.

In short, he may have found Druitt convincing because of the superficial "explanation" he provided for the apparent cessation of the murders. I'm just wondering if a modern-day investigative equivalent of Macnaghten would invest as much stock in such a theory, given what we've learned about serial killers over the many decades since 1888.

Best regards,
Ben

[sdreid]

I'm not sure what counts as modern but, in the Jack the Stripper case, Scotland Yard was still doing a similar dance in the mid-1960s when they tried to put the blame for those serial murders on Mungo Ireland after he committed suicide. The FBI is doing the same right now in the Anthrax case with the suicide Bruce Ivins.

[MustKnow]

It's not all that unusual for serial killers to kill themselves especially when they think they're about to be captured. Also, after they are caught.

Unusual, but not unheard of...Maury Travis is one name that comes to mind and here's a whole list of serial killers who committed suicide...

*****Pages in category "Serial killers who committed suicide"
The following 31 pages are in this category, out of 31 total. This list may not reflect recent changes (learn more).

B
Herb Baumeister
David Birnie
Dallen Bounds
C
José Luis Calva
Pierre Chanal
Richard Chase
Adolfo Constanzo
Andrew Cunanan
D
Karl Denke
E
Volker Eckert
E cont.
Mack Ray Edwards
Gary Evans (serial killer)
Richard Evonitz
F
Franz Fuchs
G
John Wayne Glover
Karl Grossman (murderer)
H
Charles Ray Hatcher
I
Javed Iqbal (serial killer)
L
Leonard Lake
M
David Edward Maust
David Meirhofer
P
Silvo Plut
Norbert Poehlke
S
Harold Shipman
Roberto Succo
T
Metod Trobec
U
Jack Unterweger
V
Gert van Rooyen
W
Jeanne Weber
Fred West
Christopher Wilder

So Druitt would not be alone...Cunanan and Wilder are perfect examples of killers who actually killed themselves before they were caught.

[MustKnow]

Although in the Anthrax case it probably was Bruce Ivins.

[sdreid]

Yes, Cunanan and Evonitz were the first two I thought of avoiding capture plus Shipman and West who first came to mind for after.

If Druitt was the killer, then we have to wonder if he might have thought he was about to be found out.

[ianincleveland]

i gave him a 2,mainly because he existed and was in London at the time of the murders.So were millions of others though.poor Druitt was a depressed man who commited suicide and has been scapegoated ever since.He may have had mental health problems but theres no evidence to the best of my knowledge there was never any talk of violence involving MJD.In fact i think he was probably homosexual and hence thats why he was sacked from the school,in those days Homosexuality was punishable by big jail sentences and i believe he was frightened that would come out and he sadly chose to kill himself.

[aspallek]

Hi Ian,

You are correct in that there is no evidence that Montie was ever violent. That is one of the best arguments against him. Nevertheless, he was a police suspect. The fact that he was an "English gentleman" with no known history of violence make his suspect-hood all the stronger. He certainly stands out against other contemporary police suspects like Kosminski, Tumblety, and Chapman.

Of course, there is also no evidence that he was a homosexual. I personally doubt that he was but it certainly is a possibility. Long jail sentences? I think Wilde only spent two years in prison.

Homosexual or quasi-homosexual behavior was often tolerated in the public schools of Druitt's day. While it could have become scandalous if too overt, a certain amount would be tolerated or hushed up.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Andy,

Nevertheless, he was a police suspect.

Isn't it the case that he was on Macnaghten's list of "three men" whom he believed more likely to have been the murderer than some other suspects? Whilst one may deduce from this that "a" policeman (i.e. Sir Melville) suspected Druitt, strictly speaking it doesn't mean that he was a police suspect as such.

[aspallek]

Yes, Gareth, strictly speaking that is true. I'm afraid I abbreviated my words a bit too much. What I meant by "police suspect" is "one who was suspected by a key police figure." That's why I also included Chapman, who was suspected only by Abberline insofar as we know.

But it is clear that, although he included three suspects in his memo, Macnaghten genuinely believed Druitt to be the killer.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, Gareth, strictly speaking that is true. I'm afraid I abbreviated my words a bit too much. What I meant by "police suspect" is "one who was suspected by a key police figure." That's why I also included Chapman, who was suspected only by Abberline insofar as we know.

Exactamundo, Andy! Thanks for the clarification.

But it is clear that, although he included three suspects in his memo, Macnaghten genuinely believed Druitt to be the killer.

Of that I have little doubt.

[Johnr]

The Great Unknown....

I have enjoyed this thread because posters have been so civil and understanding of each other's drifts.
Whilst numerical polls in various colours are diverting, I would really prefer more facts about Druitt.
At the moment we are supplied with limited mentions of Druitt in newspapers and institutional records. With the result that after a while, we seem to be passing the same discussion mile posts again. Pondering over limited details and weighing crime theory about Druitt's mental condition on the basis of rationed fact.

Perhaps some of the posters who feel so positively that Druitt could not possibly have "dunnit", could tell usa) how Druitt spent his spare time at Oxford (say in winter)?; (b) what his undergraduate attitude to Oxford prostitutes was?; (c) who he mixed with socially in London?;
(d) and how he spent those mystery years we do not seem to be able to account for in the 1880's?
You see, like Macnaghten, I haven't got a clue.

[aspallek]

You have indeed placed your finger on the key missing areas of the puzzle. I really don't blame folks for dismissing Druitt out of hand. I did so for quite some time myself until I one particular book gave me cause to reconsider him as a viable suspect. Of course, since then I have become a Druitt researcher myself.

Much has been fleshed out about Druitt and his family. In particular, we know quite a lot about his Winchester years thanks to an extremely helpful archivist at that college. You are correct in that the Oxford years are practically silent -- and they are KEY YEARS. I speculate that it is at Oxford where Montie's mental issues first arise. His academic performance certainly plummets while there. I can speak from my own experience at university that depression just kills the ability to concentrate and thus causes academic under achievement.

The archivist at New College, Oxford, was also very helpful to me and place all available records at my disposal. Unfortunately, there are almost no records from the dates of Montie's time at Oxford. My search came up empty. She suggested I search the county records for asylum admissions and such but unfortunately the records office was closed on my one day at Oxford. So other than a handful of cricket matches we really don't know anything about Druitt's time at Oxford. Our best bet here, I think, is if some local Dorset historical society might have another cache of Druitt letters.

The London period in Druitt's life is also maddeningly elusive. At least we do know his professions and much of his cricketing career. Here, a delve into court records might turn up more Druitt cases and again, lost correspondence might be found in some forgotten historical archive. We do now know that his mother had some sort of relationship to "Linden Gardens" (Chiswick?) as early as 1887 and that despite her mental illness she was able to write a cogent letter in May 1888. We know that Montague contributed financially to the founding of the People's Palace in the East End. And what of the mysterious John Henry Lonsdale?

We know more about his family as well. On the medical side, both his father and his Uncle Robert were not only medical men but leading obstetricians. His uncle was very much concerned with prostitution. His brother Robert, a solicitor, was experienced at conducting coroner's inquests and may have served as deputy coroner at Bournemouth (his uncle James being coroner).

Diligent research on the part of many has fleshed out an enormous bit of information the life of this rather ordinary Victorian gentleman. However, they are just bits and pieces of a grand jigsaw puzzle. Some of these pieces are starting to fit together but much is yet lacking, preventing us from seeing the whole picture.

[Roy Corduroy]

one particular book gave me cause to reconsider him as a viable suspect.

Which book please, Andy?

Roy