Montague John Druitt : Whitechapel Murderer ?

[Ben]

Hi Andy,

Doesn't the remark, "A rational and workable theory to my way of thinking is that the Ripper's brain gave way altogether after his awful glut in Millers Court and he then committed suicide" rather suggest that Macnaghten had decided for himself what the most plausible explanation was for the apparent cessation of the murders? Unfortunately for that particular theory, it doesn't mesh up terribly well with what we know to be true of the vast majority of serial killers when they appear to cease criminal activity.

Best regards,
Ben

[Celesta]

Thanks for the poll, Barry.

[aspallek]

Hi Andy,

Doesn't the remark, "A rational and workable theory to my way of thinking is that the Ripper's brain gave way altogether after his awful glut in Millers Court and he then committed suicide" rather suggest that Macnaghten had decided for himself what the most plausible explanation was for the apparent cessation of the murders? Unfortunately for that particular theory, it doesn't mesh up terribly well with what we know to be true of the vast majority of serial killers when they appear to cease criminal activity.

Best regards,
Ben

I have no intention of getting into another fruitless discussion with you, Ben, but the answer is no it doesn't. The words you quote were written by Macnaghten after he learned from Farquharson that the "son of a surgeon" who committed the murders committed suicide on the night of the last murder. It says nothing about any pre-conception. We simply do not know what Macnaghten thought about the murderer before Farquharson informed him of Druitt.

Look, Macnaghten joined SY in 1889. Farquharson began blabbing about Druitt in early 1891. We do not know what impressions Macnaghten had of the killer in that year and a half or so pre-Farquharson. I suspect that he, like everyone else, assumed that the killer either died, was incarcerated, or "went abroad." But there is no reason to assume that Macnaghten thought the killer suicided before he learned of Farquharson's tale.

[Steelysama]

Yes, for us the "evidence" that the Druitt family was convinced Montie was Jack the Ripper is second-hand. Yet, that doesn't make it worthless. That only makes it circumstantial. While Macnaghten was not a professionally-trained detective, he was no fool either. He was an educated, experienced administrator who knew how to analyze and process information. Whatever information he possessed absolutely convinced him of Druitt's guilt. That's circumstantial but by no means worthless.

I agree that it is difficult to imagine the seemingly mild-mannered Druitt as a ruthless killer. But, you see, that only makes him a better suspect. It means that the information that convinced Macnaghten must have been all that much stronger.

Yet, we just don't know.

I understand what you are getting at. Still, I think that without any way of having access to more information on the family suspicions, all we really have is that one man thought it worthwhile.

We don't know why he thought it worthwhile. We have no way of checking the sources and their reliability. So even if it was fantastic evidence at the time, without access to it, it is extremely limited in what we can do with it now.

In my own opinion, it does not succeed in raising Druitt's viability as a suspect beyond the level of any other male who could have been in Whitechapel at the time.

It really is a pity that we do not have access to this evidence which Macnaghten referred to. No matter what, it would be interesting to analyze it.

[aspallek]

I understand what you are getting at. Still, I think that without any way of having access to more information on the family suspicions, all we really have is that one man thought it worthwhile.

And I understand what you are saying. It is a pity we can't analyze Macnaghten's information. That's why I must say that I haven't the foggiest whether Druitt is Jack the Ripper. However, you are not entirely accurate. It is not only "one man" who thought Druitt was Jack the Ripper. Farquharson was clearly referring to Druitt when he spoke of the "son of a surgeon." This pre-dates Macnaghten's memorandum by three years and is almost certainly how Macnaghten learned of Druitt. Griffiths and Sims thought enough of Macnaghten's theory to repeat it -- even if not wholly accepting it. And, of course unless Macnaghten is lying, at least one Druitt family member was convinced he was Jack the Ripper. So it is not only one man's opinion.

We should really be asking what made Henry Richard Farquharson so sure that this "son of a surgeon" was Jack the Ripper. It's clear he must be describing Druitt and he must have known the family well.

[Steelysama]

And I understand what you are saying. It is a pity we can't analyze Macnaghten's information. That's why I must say that I haven't the foggiest whether Druitt is Jack the Ripper. However, you are not entirely accurate. It is not only "one man" who thought Druitt was Jack the Ripper. Farquharson was clearly referring to Druitt when he spoke of the "son of a surgeon." This pre-dates Macnaghten's memorandum by three years and is almost certainly how Macnaghten learned of Druitt. Griffiths and Sims thought enough of Macnaghten's theory to repeat it -- even if not wholly accepting it. And, of course unless Macnaghten is lying, at least one Druitt family member was convinced he was Jack the Ripper. So it is not only one man's opinion.

We should really be asking what made Henry Richard Farquharson so sure that this "son of a surgeon" was Jack the Ripper. It's clear he must be describing Druitt and he must have known the family well.

Yes, that is right. It slipped my mind.

Is there a reason that I am not aware of that Farquharson would have known the family well?

[aspallek]

Well, it is an assumption, but a pretty safe one. Farquharson, of course, was the Druitt family's MP from West Dorset. He lived at Tarrant Gunville, ten miles from the Druitt home at Wimborne Minster. Both the Farquharson and Druitt families were extremely prominent in Dorset. It's a safe bet the families knew one another well.

Farquharson was also in the coffee and tea business, as Macnaghten had been. Both he and Macnaghten were pupils at Eton at the same time (though not in the same class).

[Johnr]

Druitt Never Got Caught:And Neither Did JTR....

I'll throw my hat in the ring with Andy.
There were several reasons why the police did not 'collar' Jack the Ripper: looking in the wrong place; looking at the wrong people; excusing 'respectable' people too readily;making too many assumptions; lack of resources; not trying too hard because of the class and morals of the victims;"Establishment" cover-up.
Macnaghten spells out his reasons for suspecting Druitt, Ostrog and Kozminski, and qualifying that by saying they were more likely than Cutbush.
Macnaghten, like so many police were smarting at the public sneers over their failure to capture JTR.As the result, many policemen said they knew who JTR was but they could not arrest and try him because (a) he was insane; (b)he was already locked up and mad;(c0 he had suicided before they could get him.
We not only have Farquharson's information on Druitt plus Macnaghten's but we also have additional information, (admittedly also from Macnaghten) but leaked through his 'glove puppets' G R Sims and Major Griffiths.
None of that information was the 'clincher':but it suggests to me that whem SY re-focussed on so-called 'respectable' British suspects, the murders suddenly stopped.
Co-incidence? Why not? Another one was G R Sims looked like a suspect portrait.
Horace says: "Coincidence makes fools of us all".
Anyway, for the above and other reasons, I think MJD is a fairly strong suspect. But case "Not Proven".

Score: 6.

JOHN RUFFELS.

[Steelysama]

Well, it is an assumption, but a pretty safe one. Farquharson, of course, was the Druitt family's MP from West Dorset. He lived at Tarrant Gunville, ten miles from the Druitt home at Wimborne Minster. Both the Farquharson and Druitt families were extremely prominent in Dorset. It's a safe bet the families knew one another well.

Farquharson was also in the coffee and tea business, as Macnaghten had been. Both he and Macnaghten were pupils at Eton at the same time (though not in the same class).

That is good to know. I am fairly new to ripperology, you see.

[aspallek]

No problem. We are here to answer questions.

[halomanuk]

Out of the 3 'suspect' polls to date,Cutbush,Bury and Druitt,it is interesting to see nearly 41% so far are willing to 'risk' everything by saying Druitt is a 1 out of 10....
Very brave in my opinion,to award a 1 means absolute confidence in him not being the Ripper...are you all THAT sure ?

[babybird67]

yep

utterly convinced Barry.

People who self-harm don't murder other people...theirs is a totally different psychology. I'd bet my house that Druitt was not the Ripper, and my kids come to think of it! Maybe not the cats though...just in case

Thanks for your polls, Barry; i really enjoy them.

[Steelysama]

utterly convinced Barry.

People who self-harm don't murder other people...theirs is a totally different psychology.

What do you consider to be at work in cases in which there is a murder-suicide?

[babybird67]

hello

i wasn't aware of any...but i would presume the murder would be a one-off and the perpetrator could not cope with the guilt.

If you have details of any, it would be great to hear them. I'm never averse to learning new things.

[MustKnow]

Druitt still a strong suspect

I happen to believe Druitt is still a strong suspect as well. McNaghten wasn't careless, there must have been some reason for him to name Druitt other than a suicide. Why did his family believed him to be the Ripper and why did McNaghten take that seriously, we'll never know.

But like all suspects it seems you can have arguments for or against. Druitt cannot be disproven so far in my view though, so he remains important and one of the top 5.