Montague John Druitt : Whitechapel Murderer ?

[halomanuk]

Not sure if i can get a Friday poll out tomorrow so i will set this one up today.

Following on from the Cutbush and Bury polls,here is a juicy one to sink your teeth into :

Another simple question,was Druitt the Whitechapel Murderer ?

1 = never
10 = definately....

[aspallek]

In case anyone is wondering, I'm not going to vote in this poll because I haven't the foggiest whether Druitt was Jack the Ripper. I daresay I've done as much primary research on the man as anyone, perhaps more, over the past two years or so. This has helped me to understand the man and why he came to be a suspect. However, there is no way to evaluate the evidence known to Macnaghten. Therefore, there is no way to evaluate how likely it is that Druitt was Jack the Ripper.

I continue to maintain that he is a good suspect because Macnaghten knew something that was very convincing and Druitt did have the opportunity insofar as we know. His whereabouts cannot be placed away from London at the time of any canonical murder. Unfortunately, Macnaghten's sources and potential sources seem to be tied up in a tangled web of politicians, clergyman, and Druitt family members.

My person quest continues to be to understand Druitt, the man, and to peer into Macnaghten's potential sources as far as is possible. He can never be proved guilty. Perhaps one day an alibi will be found to exonerate him. Until then he remains a good suspect.

[aspallek]

Let me clarify something before my friend SPE corrects me again as he has done numerous times. When I refer to "evidence" known to Macnaghten, I am not using that term in the technical, legal sense. I am using "evidence" in the general sense of information known to Macnaghten that persuaded him of Druitt's guilt. There was no legal evidence against Druitt or the other suspects mentioned by Macnaghten.

[albie]

I think he is the most likeliest from the known suspects. That's not the same as saying he is the killer. The only evidence is the letter suggesting he wa worried about becoming like his mother- a mentally ill patient, and the timing of his suicide.

But considering there is no evidence for anyone else being the ripper, it is all we have

[Roy Corduroy]

I gave him a 4, Halo.

Andy's research on Druitt is outstanding. And Jonathan Hainsworth recent Rip article about the "doctor" bit was rewarding.

But I have a hard time picturing him a killer. Whereas someone like Bury seem more the type. Druitt is the ultimate sleeper suspect. His "family suspected him" we hear second hand.

Roy

[Steelysama]

I have to say that I cannot really put a number to this. Druitt is a person who, I think, has as much chance of being the Ripper as any other random male with opportunity. The problem is that there is really nothing to seriously differentiate him from any other random male with opportunity. His suicide does not make him any more likely, really. And we have no real reason to suspect him other than that he was capable and could have been there.

[Steelysama]

His "family suspected him" we hear second hand.

Roy

Exactly. If we had actual testimony from his family about what they suspected him of and why, then that might be of more interest. We could judge the merit of their suspicions based on their testimony.

We have a claim that the family suspected him. But the following holes exist:

1) His family may not have suspected him in reality.

2) Only one or a very few members of the family, possibly unreliable people for one reason or another, might have been suspecting him.

3) The reasons that the family suspected him might have been flimsy. For instance, it could have been "Oh, well, Monty's been gone late a lot, hasn't he?"

Without being able to examine the testimony, I would call it worthless as evidence.

[babybird67]

i voted never

I will never understand poor Druitt's candidacy.

He was a depressive, a self-harmer. I have a lot of experience with such concerns and i don't accept for one moment that those who self-harm have any inclination to harm or murder other people. They look inwardly, not outwardly, in that sense.

[sdreid]

He's not my #1 but he is in my top three so I gave him a 3.

[aspallek]

Exactly. If we had actual testimony from his family about what they suspected him of and why, then that might be of more interest. We could judge the merit of their suspicions based on their testimony.

We have a claim that the family suspected him. But the following holes exist:

1) His family may not have suspected him in reality.

2) Only one or a very few members of the family, possibly unreliable people for one reason or another, might have been suspecting him.

3) The reasons that the family suspected him might have been flimsy. For instance, it could have been "Oh, well, Monty's been gone late a lot, hasn't he?"

Without being able to examine the testimony, I would call it worthless as evidence.

Yes, for us the "evidence" that the Druitt family was convinced Montie was Jack the Ripper is second-hand. Yet, that doesn't make it worthless. That only makes it circumstantial. While Macnaghten was not a professionally-trained detective, he was no fool either. He was an educated, experienced administrator who knew how to analyze and process information. Whatever information he possessed absolutely convinced him of Druitt's guilt. That's circumstantial but by no means worthless.

I agree that it is difficult to imagine the seemingly mild-mannered Druitt as a ruthless killer. But, you see, that only makes him a better suspect. It means that the information that convinced Macnaghten must have been all that much stronger.

Yet, we just don't know.

[Ben]

Hi Andy,

Whatever information he possessed absolutely convinced him of Druitt's guilt.

But that doesn't mean that the information would necessarily be "convincing" to us if we were in possession of it. It clearly wasn't to Abberline, who believed that there was nothing beyond the date and circumstances of his death to incriminate him. As Philip Sugden observed rather astutely, Macnaghten's convictions concerning Druitt may have owed more to his personal theory (i.e. in relation to why the murders stopped etc) than anything of incriminating value.

I agree that it is difficult to imagine the seemingly mild-mannered Druitt as a ruthless killer. But, you see, that only makes him a better suspect. It means that the information that convinced Macnaghten must have been all that much stronger.

No, I'm afraid none of that follows at all.

The image of the killer as a mild-mannered, educated gentleman is not a modern-day myth. Jekyll and Hyde was undoubtedly a factor in the creation of that mental image of the killer at the time of the murders, and it may have been fuelled by some of the more outlandish "eyewitness" accounts to have emerged from the case.

Macnaghten was not only completely untrained as a professional policeman, he had no knowledge whatsoever of serial killers.

Best regards,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

Macnaghten's pet theory seems to have been that the Ripper was someone who "in all probability put an end to himself" and that "the Ripper’s brain gave way altogether after his awful glut in Miller’s Court and he committed suicide". Bearing that in mind, MM might have found MJD a strong suspect irrespective of whether he had any concrete evidence at his disposal, simply because Druitt matched his personal preconceptions of the type of behaviour a plausible "Ripper" should exhibit. Macnaghten wouldn't be the last person to have thought that way, because suspect-based Ripperology has produced several instances of people doing precisely the same thing.

[aspallek]

Macnaghten's pet theory seems to have been that the Ripper was someone who "in all probability put an end to himself" and that "the Ripper’s brain gave way altogether after his awful glut in Miller’s Court and he committed suicide". Bearing that in mind, MM might have found MJD a strong suspect irrespective of whether he had any concrete evidence at his disposal, simply because Druitt matched his personal preconceptions of the type of behaviour a plausible "Ripper" should exhibit. Macnaghten wouldn't be the last person to have thought that way, because suspect-based Ripperology has produced several instances of people doing precisely the same thing.

We don't have any indication that Macnaghten thought the killer "put an end to himself" before he suspected Druitt, so I'm not sure how you can assume that Druitt merely "matched his personal preconceptions." What preconceptions are you aware of?

The detail about the killer "putting an end to himself" after the last murder seems to be derived from Farquharson, who obviously suspected Druitt.

[Sam Flynn]

We don't have any indication that Macnaghten thought the killer "put an end to himself" before he suspected Druitt, so I'm not sure how you can assume that Druitt merely "matched his personal preconceptions." What preconceptions are you aware of?

Macnaghten did see the suicide theory as "much more rational", Andy, so it does seem to have appealed to him as a generic solution to the problem of why the Ripper stopped after Miller's Court.

Note my use of the word "seem" in my original post, and here. It's an impression I get, that's all - and an assumption I'm prepared to make.

[aspallek]

Macnaghten did see the suicide theory as "much more rational", Andy, so it does seem to have appealed to him as a generic solution to the problem of why the Ripper stopped after Miller's Court.

Note my use of the word "seem" in my original post, and here. It's an impression I get, that's all - and an assumption I'm prepared to make.

Forgive me, Gareth, but that seems to be a dangerous assumption in light of what we now know regarding Farquharson. Farquharson clearly said in 1891 that the killer, that "son of a surgeon," committed suicide on the night of the last murder. If we are to make assumptions, the logical one is that Macnaghten got this information from the MP, as we know the story was communicated to the police. As a matter of fact, this information clearly puzzled Macnaghten as he learned the correct details of the timing of Druitt's death. Macnaghten can be seen trying to reconcile his notion, derived from Farquharson, that the killer committed suicide on the night of the last murder with the information that Druitt apparently committed suicide three weeks later. No, his information about a suicided suspect came from the MP. There is no reason to suppose it was a preconceived idea.