"Sexually Insane" revisited

[John Wheat]

Melville was blatantly talking out his arse if you look at a number of statements he made about Ripper suspects he talked a lot of ****.

[aspallek]

Perhaps, John, you would like to elucidate in your post rather than making an overly simplistic statement containing profanity that has to be censored. The inaccuracies in Macnaghten's description are well known. Perhaps you would want to explore why he made these errors and give potential reasons for them and show how they were perpetuated to some degree by writers such as Griffiths, showing conclusively that Griffiths had a version of the Macnaghten memorandum before him when he wrote. Perhaps you would want to consider how Macnaghten learned about Druitt from Druitt's own MP barely two years after the murders and what mistakes were passed on down from that source.

Overly simplistic mistakes with crude language such as the one above really do nothing to contribute to the discussion. I'm sure you have interesting and intelligent ideas. How about sharing them with us and joining in the discussion?

[lynn cates]

satiety

Hello. Druitt (or someone like him), and the sexual satisfaction hypothesis, is the only decent explanation for the increase of violence (esp. facial mutilations in the case of Eddowes; and, absolute carnage in the case of Kelley) in the Ripper's career.

It is a psychological commonplace that pornography leads to satiety and, either the practice is discontinued or "stronger stuff" is required for the same effect. I think, then, a parallel can be drawn with violence used for sexual release.

And so more and more "knife work" would be required in order to achieve Jack's (Monty's) desired effect. This would be particularly salient if he were, as suggested above, already hypersexual.

lynn cates

[Johnr]

G.R.Sims' Description of Druitt's Alleged "Sexual Mania".

I have gone back over the Press Reports by G.R.Sims, looking for his description of what he claimed, Montague Druitt suffered from.

And in Sims' Lloyd's Weekly column of September 22nd 1907,(Sims' column was regular and called:[U] " My Criminal Museum [/U]" .
He paraphrased Macnaghten's list - even to describing the most likely candidate a doctor,thus:-
"[I] The third man was a doctor who lived in a suburb about six miles from Whitechapel, and who suffered from a horrible form of homicidal mania, a mania which leads the victim to look upon women of a certain class with a frenzied hatred...."[/I]

So perhaps this writing throws further light on what Macnaghten and perhaps Anderson, referred to when they spoke of the Ripper's " sexual insanity'.

It is important to bear in mind, I think, that Anderson, Macnaghten and journalist Sims, appear to have been in contact - given their common use of
inaccurate information -and whilst yes, some details are wrong, possibly Sims' later published reports give us the only window into Anderson's and Macnaghten's more private thinkings upon JTR investigations. JOHN RUFFELS.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi John,
While I can agree that Macnaghten and Sims appear to have been "in contact" ,they were apparently friends after all,I dont quite understand how you go on to conclude that Anderson was "in contact" in the same way and drawing the same conclusions.
Ofcourse I can accept that as Macnaghten"s colleague, Anderson would have had to share certain information and that no doubt included information on a person both Anderson and Macnaghten thought was a "strong suspect" ie Kosminski,but really nothing else that comes down to us to date indicates they were both singing from the same song sheet.Macnaghten suggested Druitt was JtR "from private information received" while Anderson appears to have ignored Druitt completely and decided he was CERTAIN that JtR was Kosminski or another "low class Polish Jew living IN Whitechapel".In fact it was this remark by Anderson about knowing where the ripper lived that led to the third police chief, City Police Chief Henry Smith,devoting a chapter of his own autobiography,to a scathing attack on Anderson for making such a "reckless accusation"[1910]-NOBODY KNEW WHERE THE RIPPER LIVED he wrote " and even after twenty years we dont--- HE BEAT US ALL completely".
Importantly too,Inspector Abberline certainly didnt accept that either any man in a lunatic asylum [presumably Kosminski] or any "drowned doctor" was the Ripper as he indicated to the Pall Mall Gazette reporter in 1903.In fact he thought such SPECULATION was a load of nonsense.

Best Wishes

Norma

[Johnr]

Yes goodday Norma,
I know where yer comin from...
Yes, I can agree with your argument that Anderson never revealed any knowledge about Druitt being a suspect, and yes, I agree he did seem one-eyed in his belief that the only 'possible' could have been his Kozminski-type
"foreign-devil" candidate.
However, reading again G.R.Sims' 22nd September 1907 Lloyd's Weekly article on the three Ripper suspects leads me to believe Sims was gleaning information from more than just Macnaghten.
Was he using his reporting skills to further his own knowledge? Or had be been badgering Macnaghten for more information?
It is pretty clear to me that Anderson and Macnaghten were both followingthe legalistic official police line, that they could not reveal the Ripper's identity to Sims or the public ...for the very reasons outlined in Sims' article referred to above.
But, because Sims' article here, seems to reveal a couple of additional bits of information, I think we can safely use these to advance our knowledge of what Macnaghten was thinking ( or referring to) in his Memorandum.
That is what I think. JOHN RUFFELS.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi John,
I am afraid I attend most carefully to the recorded words of Inspector Abberline to the Pall Mall Gazette journalist in 1903 and to the words of Sir Henry Smith of the City of London Police in 1910 in his autobiography ,because both these men ,who were there in person when the murders took place , took a great interest in any lead towards identifying the ripper and both men,Abberline 15 years later,Smith twenty two years later stated emphatically that the ripper"s identity was still unknown to the police.Its true that Abberline had by that time developed a theory around Chapman and had learned that Klosowski/Chapman [executed for murdering three females in 1903 ]had lived and worked in Whitechapel close to where several of the murders in 1888 took place. Nevertheless he was emphatic about the fact that the ripper had never been caught or his identity discovered.
I myself believe both Macnaghten and Anderson wanted to put the best light on their failure to capture him and preferred to pretend that Scotland Yard had been "in the know" one by hinting he was a drowned doctor,the other that he was a dead lunatic..........all very convenient n"est pas?
Best
Norma

[jason_c]

Natalie, it wasn't quite so convenient for MacNaghten, he was in no way resaponsible for the police failure. He had no axe to grind that way.

[Natalie Severn]

Natalie, it wasn't quite so convenient for MacNaghten, he was in no way resaponsible for the police failure. He had no axe to grind that way.

Hi Jason,
You are probably correct as he came a little later. However being a loyal Scotland Yard man,he may have wanted to put the best face on Scotland Yard"s failure to capture the Ripper and by saying,in his autobiography the yard were aware of several strong suspects,one of whom, "a person who in all probability put an end to himself soon after the Dorset St affair" [we know it was Druitt from the 1894 report],was his personal choice for the ripper,he was putting a better light on it in his memoirs.

[aspallek]

Hi John,

I've been contending for years that Macnaghten's "sexually insane" must be interpreted in light of this later "sexual mania" statement. As you point out, Sims appears to have known this as his description is quite consistent with what would have been termed "sexual mania."

The interesting piece that Sims adds, however, is that the suspect lived in a suburb six miles from Whitechapel. This detail fits Blackheath exactly and it is a detail never mentioned by Macnaghten in his memo or his memoirs. This means Sims had more information than what was available from Macnaghten via Griffiths. The question is whether Sims got this information privately from Macnaghten or as a result of his own research. It also suggests that he may have known Druitt's name when he wrote of a "Dr. D" to Littlechild but perhaps may have been bound by an agreement not to reveal it.

As to Abberline, I think he confused the unnamed Druitt with the "third insane medical student" (what was his name, Saunders?) that seemed a promising lead but ended in a dead end when his mother was tracked down near St. John's Wood. In any case, I believe by 1903 Abberline was too far removed from the investigation to be well informed. I realize he claimed to be in close touch with his former friends a Scotland Yard but I think we has probably blowing smoke to a great extent. I doubt those former friends would have confided in him.

[Robert]

If I remember right, Stewart Evans in the course of a Cutbush discussion said that there is a strong demarcation line between the Force and outsiders - once you'd left the police, you'd left it, and you were just like any other civilian.

[aspallek]

If I remember right, Stewart Evans in the course of a Cutbush discussion said that there is a strong demarcation line between the Force and outsiders - once you'd left the police, you'd left it, and you were just like any other civilian.

Yes, Robert, Stewart told that to me personally specifically in regard to Abberline's claim to still be in close touch with members of the Yard.