Does anyone believe MJD was murdered?

[Mayerling]

It is funny but the concept of Monty not committing suicide was used in a book - a novel called THE RETURN OF MORIARTY by John Gardner. One of two "alternative fiction histories" (for want of a better term), Gardner has both Moriarty and Holmes surviving the encounter at the Reichenbach Falls in 1891. During the course of the first book (THE RETURN) Moriarty is facing a new and smarter than usual Scotland Yard inspector, and a possible group of traitors in his gang. He is musing about the harshest times in his career, and recalls that autumn and winter of 1888. It seems that the events in Whitehapel (as they affected the prostitution business) cut into his own profits. Moriarty sets up a really big reward for the capture of Jack, and Elizabeth Stride comes into his office to tell him she believes it's a fellow, a teacher or lawyer, named "Drutt" or something like that. After she is murdered, Moriarty and his assistant Sebastian Moran start checking out lawyers and teachers named "Drutt". Eventually, of course, they come to
Druitt. There is a scene where the Professor and the Colonel meet Druitt at Chiswick, get him drunk at a pub (he actually explains his killings was to bring attention of the "social evil" to the public), and set up the "suicidal" death.
End of problem for Moriarty.

Jeff

[Johnr]

Hello Jeff,
What a great plot! Sounds almost like a book tailor-made for Druitt tragics on this very Web site.
(And count me in on that one).
What year did Gardner pen his masterpiece?
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Robert]

I have bad news for Moriarty : Druitt got wind of the plot and at the last minute switched identities with PAV (to whom he bore a remarkable resemblance). PAV was found drowned and Druitt took his place at Court. What price the Royal theory now?

[Mayerling]

Hi John and Robert,

Actually Robert, I suspect that a second volume of James Maybrick's diary mentions Monty's replacing Albert Victor (Eddy). He apparently got the information from Fred Deeming.

Gardner wrote two books in his planned series (THE RETURN OF MORIARTY and THE REVENGE OF MORIARTY) in the late 1970s. The first book was not bad, as it gave a colorful look at the London underworld. But the view of Holmes was not one that fans of that detective would have liked. And Gardner seemed (up to the point that he brought out these books) to believe that Moriarty should get away with most of his actions. It is interesting that he creates a new breed of Scotland Yard Detective who is not the plodder that Lestrade is (legendarily) supposed to be.

Interestingly enough there were two potentially good series of Victorian thrillers that came out in that period of the late 1970s. The other was by "John Cashman" and was based on actual criminals. I cannot recall the titles but one was about Neill Cream, one was about Kate Webster, and one was about Charles Peace. I read the one about Cream, which suggests that Cream learned about the possibility that Prince Eddy was JTR.

Jeff

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

My old friend John Gardner died in 2007, but not before he had finished the third book in his Moriarty series.

Titled simply "Moriarty", it is published in hardback in the USA by Harcourt.

Enjoy.

Simon

[anna]

When I first read about it in my ripper books,I believed it was suicide.....having read and discussed the info on this site with others,I now believe he was murdered.

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,

My old friend John Gardner died in 2007, but not before he had finished the third book in his Moriarty series.

Titled simply "Moriarty", it is published in hardback in the USA by Harcourt.

Enjoy.

Simon

Hi Simon,

I wish I had known you knew Gardner earlier - I liked THE RETURN OF MORIARTY. I would have liked to have told him. This is the first I know of the third novel.

The Cashman novel about Cream was THE GENTLEMAN FROM CHICAGO.

Jeff

[Lika]

Was there any wounds on Druitts body?Like evidence that he was stabbed or got hit by a blunt object on the head?
Cause Unless he was dead noone could have thrown him the Thames with bricks druitt would have defended himself.And also highly doubtful that someone would have put bricks into his pockets without him noticing

[Roma]

Lika, as a lawyer (young lawyer, I admit, but lawyer anyway !!), I can tell you that wounds don't prove murder... There are also what could be called "psychological murders" : ie when you force someone to kill himself or herself (just with words, I mean), it's a murder... Consequently, Montague, even if he was not wounded, could have been killed. But I'm really doubtful about it, I'm convinced he killed himself.

[Johnr]

Motive: Ridding The Establishment of a Current Embarrassment?

It seems to me Messrs Martin Howells and Keith Skinner, joint authors in 1987 of the Ripper book: " The Ripper Legacy: The Life & Death of Jack the Ripper" (published by Sidgwick & Jackson), appeared - at least in 1987 - to suggest Montague Druitt may have been bumped off.
It would be interesting to learn from Keith Skinner if he still cleeves to that possible scenario today.
I understand Martin Howells is no longer involved in Ripperalian matters.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Nothing to see]

When I first read about it in my ripper books,I believed it was suicide.....having read and discussed the info on this site with others,I now believe he was murdered.

Well now, that's interesting. What makes you so sure he was murdered?

Let's not consider him a JTR suspect. Why would anyone murder Montague?

[miss marple]

stones in their pockets

There is a similarity between the suicides of Druitt and Virginia Woolf. I just want to put Druitt's suicide in a context.
Druitt seemed to have suffered bouts of depression, mental illness as did Virginia Woolf throughout her life, but still functioned, wrote novels, had a social life, as Druitt still functioned, played cricket, and worked. but when the depression hits, there is nothing you can do, in the case of Virginia Woolf it got worse as she got older. In 1941 she realised another severe bout was coming and she was terrified, and also worried about the burden it would place on her husband Leonard. In the note she wrote to Leonard she said ''I know I shall never get over this: and I am wasting your life'' She put a big stone in her pocket and drowned herself in the fast flowing Ouse, even though she could swim, she let the river take her.
In Druitt's last note he was terrified of going mad and becoming like his mother.If he had had bouts of depression/ breakdown before, [ which could have been why he lost his job] and he was aware it was getting worse and he could not go on, in his mental state suicide seems the only option. So he put stones in he pocket and drowned in the fast flowing tidal Thames.
To his family mental illness and suicide would have been a terrible stigma. [suicide was a crime if you survived]
I have never believed poor Druitt had any thing to do with the ripper, there is nothing in his life to suggest a connection, outside Macnaughton's vague ponderings.There is so much clutching at straws going on. His death was not as odd as people try to make out.
Miss Marple
I have

[The Good Michael]

Not sure that Druitt's depression and mental illness have been verified. His suicide note seems to have been paraphrased by his brother. I don't believe any officials actually read it, or have been cited as having read it. If Druitt was the Ripper, and family found out, it would be easy to concoct a story of insanity and depression after the fact. I don't think he was JTR, but a somewhat sound argument has been made for it.

Cheers,

Mike

[miss marple]

sound argument

Mike, What is the sound argument?
Being obsessed with cricket? Spending his time never going to the East End.Not having a history of violence. The logic goes because his dad was a doctor, Monty MUST be an expert surgeon.
Because his chambers were a forty minute walk from the East End that means that Monty MUST spend all his spare time hanging out in the lowest darkest allys familiarising himself with every inch.blending in with the locals with his public school accent and gentlemanly airs.
The sound fact we know is that his mother was mentally ill and another relative committed suicide. There was a history of mental illness in his family. They did not have to pretend he suffered from mental illness.That was a massive shame in Vctorian times when mental illness was not understood
Cheers Miss Marple

[The Good Michael]

Well anyone who loves cricket is certainly suspect. No, the argument lies with the fact that he died around the time the murders stopped and that certain officials said his family believed he was guilty (or so the story goes). That is as sound as any other theory we currently have.

My point was really that we don't know he had mental illness.

Mike