Druitt's mother

[aspallek]

Hi Caz,

Your last point, I believe, is well taken. If Druitt became rather obsessed with the killings (and we have no indication of this) then his family may have seen this as a possible indication of involvement on his part. Still, it does seem a rather extreme conclusion to be reached.

Sir Melville wrote that Druitt's family "believed him to have been the murderer." That's strong. Not "suspected" but "believed." What would cause such a belief among one's own family? And who was the informant who provided the "private information?" I think the cause would almost have to be something on the order of a confession or a very strong statement expressing approval of the murders. Macnaghten's informant, i think, is someone outside the Druitt family. Of the names we know, two possibilities present themselves: Henry Richard Farquharson, (Druitt family MP) and Rev. John Henry Lonsdale (Druitt family clergyman, family acquaintance and classmate at Eton of Melville Macnaghten).

[Johnr]

Druitt and the Females...

In the body of researched information concerning the life of Montague Druitt,
which has so far, emerged, two items interest me.
A couple of years ago a distant relative of MJD's logged on and told us how his Aunt Sarah owned a book ( about Flowers of The Field?) which had been gifted to her by none other than Montague Druitt. His signature was on the flyleaf.The logger I think, signed himself " C. King ".
Second, in the West Sussex Records Office is MJD's letter to his Uncle Robert telling him how he, Montague, had set a Latin text for his young neice to translate and discuss.Presumeably whilst both she, and Montague - who was older -were holidaying somewhere. The young girl was MJD's "Uncle Robert's "
daughter.
So, is this an emerging picture of Montague as a man who preferred the company of young female family members?
There is insufficient information to form a definite conclusion, but perhaps we should keep our eyes peeled for more.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[caz]

I think the cause would almost have to be something on the order of a confession or a very strong statement expressing approval of the murders.

Hi Andy,

While there's no way of telling what Monty actually felt about the murders, assuming he had an opinion at all, I do think the timing of his suicide after Mary would point more towards regret and self-loathing than approval.

Imagine how it might have come across if he confided something along these lines to an impressionable female family member:

"My God, this one was worse than all the rest but how can I possibly stop it happening again? Those wretched women keep invading my thoughts and I dream about not being able to wash their blood off my hands. What is happening to me? Am I to have no peace?"

In the listener’s mind (especially if that mind was similarly affected by the family tendency to mental instability) this could easily have taken on the form of a confession following Monty’s untimely end.

Love,

Caz
X

[aspallek]

Hi John,

I think the evidence is too scant for such a conclusion.

The gift of a book to a female relative hardly constitutes evidence for an abnormal or inappropriate desire.

I also think you may have misinterpreted the "Uncle Robert" letter. There is no indication that Montague and his female cousin Kitty (Uncle Robert's daughter) were somewhere "on holiday" together. The letter is postmarked Wimborne and there is every indication the tutoring in Latin took place there. Furthermore, the letter plainly indicates that Kitty was accompanied on her visit to Wimborne by her sister Emily and that Montague was not their "host." From the letter:

"I am afraid Emily and Kitty had a very dull time of it at Wimborne; an attempt of ours to make it less so was met by the assurance of their hostess that she should take care of her own guests herself!"

This shows that (1) Kitty's and Emily's visit was to Wimborne, (2) that their host(ess) was a female, almost certainly one of Montague's sisters, (3) and that Montague and someone else, probably his brother(s), made some attempt, probably a mischievous one, to entertain his cousins and that this attempt was rebuffed by their hostess (again probably Montague's sister).

However, I do think the Uncle Robert letter bears closer scrutiny. We have focused so much on the letter as a sample of Druitt's handwriting that we have neglected its contents.

[aspallek]

Hi Andy,

While there's no way of telling what Monty actually felt about the murders, assuming he had an opinion at all, I do think the timing of his suicide after Mary would point more towards regret and self-loathing than approval.

Perhaps. However, there are other factors to be considered. It is possible, assuming Montague's guilt, that the suicide had nothing directly to do with the murders. It may have been all about his being sacked. Or Montague's "regret and self-loathing," if it existed, may have been a reflection of a horrifying approval of the murders which he recognized in himself. We are just too unsure of his motive for suicide to draw any conclusions.

The question remains as to what sort of behavior or words on Montague's part could be responsible for his own family to believe, not merely suspect, that he was Jack the Ripper? I believe this must have been something quite incriminating, at least circumstantially. Confession to a family member, or to a clergyman who might have informed his family (inappropriately) suggests itself to me as the likely behavior to cause this belief on the part of Montague's family.

Consider John Henry Lonsdale:

1. Fellow barrister and colleague of Montague's. Lived a few yards away at Blackheath and had chambers in the same buildings in London.

2. Enters church work in 1887 and is immediately posted as curate to Wimborne Minster, the Druitt family parish.

3. Knows Montague's cousin, Rev. Charles Druitt. Their acquaintance has been proved and there is every indication they were good friends.

4. Knows barrister Harry Wilson, whose house, The Osiers, is yards from where Druitt's body is discovered.

5. Is curate at Wimborne Minster during the Autumn of 1888. It is rather mysteriously announced in the press on 3 Nov. 1888 that Lonsdale is to be moved from Wimborne, indeed removed from Dorset, for reasons of health when every indication is that Lonsdale always enjoyed good health and when he was about to marry a local Dorset girl. One would think his desire would be to stay -- unless he knew "too much" that was potentially embarrassing to a prominent family like the Druitts. (Lonsdale's wife Kitty is from the area of Blandford Forum, 3 miles from Farquharson's home so they likely knew one another since both were from prominent families).

6. Is a classmate of Melville Macnaghten's from Eton.

[c.d.]

Of course the question remains, if his family truly believed that Monty was the Ripper, what, if anything, did they do about it?

c.d.

[aspallek]

Hi c.d.,

Quite right. And that raises the whole timing issue. Did Druitt's family believe him to be the Ripper while Montague was still alive? Or was it only after his death that they came to believe it? If the latter is true, that would tend to explain their relative inaction.

[c.d.]

Hi Andy,

I would have to say the latter. The murders covered only a short time span and Monty was away from the family at the time and I would assume that the family's communications with him were limited.

c.d.

[aspallek]

Hi Andy,

I would have to say the latter. The murders covered only a short time span and Monty was away from the family at the time and I would assume that the family's communications with him were limited.

c.d.

And if so, then their relative inaction is understandable.

[caz]

Hi Andy,

Well my point was really that if someone close to Monty was already aware, while he was still alive, of a distinctly unhealthy and seemingly personal interest in the murders (and I haven't even explored the "alleged to be sexually insane" angle yet), then the fact that he took himself off and did away with himself so soon after the most horrific murder to date, and no more confirmed ripper crimes were committed subsequently, could have been all the confirmation required to cement their worst fears.

It would only take one family member to get the wrong - or right - end of the stick and convince themselves of Monty's guilt, to make someone outside the family take them seriously. After all, you don't expect to hear such a belief expressed lightly or wantonly, or with no substance to it at all.

But we all know only too well how some people will always find confirmation for their beliefs in new information, before they look for reasons to question them.

Love,

Caz
X

[aspallek]

Hi Andy,

It would only take one family member to get the wrong - or right - end of the stick and convince themselves of Monty's guilt, to make someone outside the family take them seriously. After all, you don't expect to hear such a belief expressed lightly or wantonly, or with no substance to it at all.

My point exactly.

[Johnr]

A belated response to Andy Spallek,
I realise this thread concerns the health problems of Montague's mother, so perhaps I should start a separate one on the few glimpses we have into MJD's private life.( Shall do).
I'll just say here, that my loose wording mistakenly made as if I thought MJD and his female cousin had dashed off to holiday somewhere by themselves. In fact I realised it was at MJD's family home, my point was that MJD was back there (on holidays?) at the same time as his cousin was visiting.
The thrust of my previous posting was that on two occasions that we know of, MJD had social involvements with his female cousins. I hasten to agree with Andy, that these involvements appear to have been purely family orientated.
I still think Montague might have been a flash spiv on the cricket pitch and in the club house, and even in the court, but if his letter to Uncle Robert is anything to go by, he seemed dry as dust ( a boring nerd) in his associations with his cousin. JOHN RUFFELS.

[Johnr]

'The Osiers' at Chiswick

I have another mystery to solve. I have voiced it several times and never yet come up with any answers. Above the kitchen door at The Osiers, Chiswick Mall, Harry Wilson's house, (have seen it myself!), there is a list of names viz:
E D Anderson, C E Robertson, B Bright, AM Walker, M A Wilson, E W Sitwell, J H Anderson, H L Stephen, D W Sitwell, M Gillson, RR Bowden-Smith, J K Sitwell.

Can anyone come up with who the hell they were? I obviously know that HL Stephen was JK's bro and he went to Rugby school with Wilson and then on to Cambridge. But how do the others fit in. Maybe some form of brotherhood.

Hello Deborah,
I have noticed for some time you have tried to make sense of that list of names above the kitchen doorway.
I do not know if you have been to the Chiswick Library?
A fellow researcher went there on my behalf many years ago, and discovered they had Kelly's Local Directories for 1887-8;none for 1889-90;nor 1891-92;
1893-4;1895-6;and 1897-8.
Hereunder are the listings for 'The Osiers'.
1887-8:Henry F Wilson, Frank Gillson,Richard L.B.Rathbone.
1893-4:Henry F.Wilson, W.l.Richards, WilliamS.Wilmot-Sitwell.
1895-6:Henry F wilson,Robert Stephen Vere O'Brien, Whitmorel.Richards.
1897-8: Whitmore L.Richards, Lancelot Christopher Lowther.

Regarding the name "Gillson", there is an interesting possible link with Reverend Canon Maurice Paget Gillson, Beechcroft, Blandford, Dorset.
(Year not recorded: Source: Who Was Who (1949).

JOHN RUFFELS.

[aspallek]

Hi John,

Regarding the names, I researched this some time ago. There is a Frank Gillson who ends up as a lawyer in Hampshire (Fareham, I believe). This is probably the same person. There is a Frank E. Gillson, age 11, in the 1881 census with a Hammersmith birthplace. But his parents are common craftsmen/laborers so I doubt he would be connected with Wilson.

Rathbone is a distant relative of actor Basil Rathbone. Wilmot-Sitwell is a distant relative of Osbert Sitwell and his family. This is a bit significant in that Osbert Sitwell wrote of a Ripper theory and also wrote of a visit to Tuke's asylum.

I think I had identified Richards too but I can't remember now.

[aspallek]

Here is information on Maurice Paget Gillson from the 1898 Crockford's Clerical Directory. As you can see, he has East End ties. The Druitt's and Paget's I believe intermarried. There is also a Septimus Gillson but they don't appear related. Maurice's father was Henry Thomas Gillson (barrister -- not practicing in the 1881 census and living in Somerset).