Cutbush - Too Easily Dismissed As A Suspect?

[The Macdonald Triad]

I’d say that profiling isn’t an exact science though not without it’s uses. He was a deeply disturbed man, obsessive and vindictive, certainly violent and certainly violent toward women, he had a reason for hating prostitutes (at least in his own mind because he believed that one had given him syphilis), he owned knives that he didn’t need for any constructive reason including a large Bowie knife, he worked in the East End/ Whitechapel and so knew the area, he had anatomical knowledge and obsessively drew mutilated women, he worked but could never hold down a job for any great length of time door to his poor timekeeping, his own mother (whose throat he tried to cut) and his aunt both said that he used to spend nights wandering the streets and often came home covered in mud and blood (entering the house by scaling a fence/wall at the back of the house so that he could use the back entrance) and when Race searched his room he found bloodied clothing covered in turpentine pushed up the chimney. And when Race questioned him he denied any knowledge of the East End despite working there for several years. Race suspected him of being the ripper and, if it’s correct, so did a prosecutor and solicitor.

If you compare that to most suspects then that surely makes him at least a reasonable one? Certainly one requiring further research and a more thorough book? Also, it looks like the Cutbush that committed suicide wasn’t actually his uncle according to research though I’m unsure how certain we are?

I agree he needs more research if one hasn't already. I have and eliminated him because of the MO discrepancy. The same way I eliminated George Chapman. Chapman is a prime example to me how the police of the time really had no clue. Such as Abberline thinking Chapman was the Ripper. I've never heard of the turpentine thing before. Cutbush impresses me as a pisshead. Getting drunk and wandering around being psychotic. A lot like Bury, I sense he implicated himself for attention. However one thing about him that can't be denied is that he's always getting caught and being remembered in places. Such as when he escaped from the loony bin and told a few witnesses he was being pursued as JTR. Cutbush would have stood out if spotted. He was a muppet. The whole reason the newspaper probably attacked him is to attack the police who were still being excoriated for Trafalger Square.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Cutbush was a suspect in a time before profiling. He doesn't fit the M.O. Besides if I remember right, him stabbing women in their rear ends was a copycat move on his part. Someone else was running around before him doing the same thing. It's also very cowardly, attacking from behind. Jack was bold, social, and invisible.

It is suspicious that Cutbushs Uncle topped himself off. But even the suspicion could have been too much for an Englishman of that era.

I’d say that profiling isn’t an exact science though not without it’s uses. He was a deeply disturbed man, obsessive and vindictive, certainly violent and certainly violent toward women, he had a reason for hating prostitutes (at least in his own mind because he believed that one had given him syphilis), he owned knives that he didn’t need for any constructive reason including a large Bowie knife, he worked in the East End/ Whitechapel and so knew the area, he had anatomical knowledge and obsessively drew mutilated women, he worked but could never hold down a job for any great length of time door to his poor timekeeping, his own mother (whose throat he tried to cut) and his aunt both said that he used to spend nights wandering the streets and often came home covered in mud and blood (entering the house by scaling a fence/wall at the back of the house so that he could use the back entrance) and when Race searched his room he found bloodied clothing covered in turpentine pushed up the chimney. And when Race questioned him he denied any knowledge of the East End despite working there for several years. Race suspected him of being the ripper and, if it’s correct, so did a prosecutor and solicitor.

If you compare that to most suspects then that surely makes him at least a reasonable one? Certainly one requiring further research and a more thorough book? Also, it looks like the Cutbush that committed suicide wasn’t actually his uncle according to research though I’m unsure how certain we are?

[The Macdonald Triad]

Cutbush was a suspect in a time before profiling. He doesn't fit the M.O. Besides if I remember right, him stabbing women in their rear ends was a copycat move on his part. Someone else was running around before him doing the same thing. It's also very cowardly, attacking from behind. Jack was bold, social, and invisible.

It is suspicious that Cutbushs Uncle topped himself off. But even the suspicion could have been too much for an Englishman of that era.

[Herlock Sholmes]

thanks! well thats a contemp police officer that suspected of him of being the ripper-thats got to count for something. and a careful reading of the MM, Mac dosnt reject cutbush, just favors the other three over him.

I don’t know anything like enough detail Abby and there are parts of Bullock’s book that can’t be trusted but I definitely think that Cutbush has more going for him as a suspect than most. A good, well-researched book is what we need. Whether that likely is another thing.

[Abby Normal]

Inspector Race. Put in charge of capturing Cutbush after he’d escaped from the Lunatic Ward.

thanks! well thats a contemp police officer that suspected of him of being the ripper-thats got to count for something. and a careful reading of the MM, Mac dosnt reject cutbush, just favors the other three over him.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Inspector Race. Put in charge of capturing Cutbush after he’d escaped from the Lunatic Ward.

[Abby Normal]

There’s no further detail in Bullock so I can’t say Abby. He does claim though, for what it’s worth with no sources, that after the trial in 1891 the two Sun journalists saw (in 1893) the Prosecutor De Michele’s brief and the instructions of the solicitor that defended Cutbush and found that he’d Ben suspected of being JTR. From the time of the trial Lloyds Weekly News said: “In certain police circles there is growing feeling that it (the Cutbush case) may in the end prove to be in some way connected with the darker and more tragic mysteries of the East End.” So at the very least it looks possible that the police considered him worth looking at.

Now we get a little conspiracy minded perhaps (which might raise an eyebrow or two coming from the arch anti-conspiracist) Bullock quotes the cases of Charles Lutwig who threatened to stab Alexander Finlay, he had a history of accosting women and had threatened a woman with a knife the same day, he was in custody for just a week (according to Bullock, I haven’t checked) and a doctor called John Donkin who in 1881 was imprisoned for assaulting a number of women. He got just 3 months. Yet Cutbush got sent to Broadmoor indefinitely as a category A prisoner. Sentences will often vary of course, but Bullock’s inference is ‘did they suspect him of being the ripper so they threw away the key?’

thanks Herlock
who was Race?

[Herlock Sholmes]

As I say, the murders look like someone who is having a field day experimenting and there appears to me to be no apparent motive beyond that. It has been reasonably suggested that this person did have anatomical knowledge but was not necessarily practicing. That would fit someone obsessed with anatomy and reading a lot of books.

Although it was never proven it was Cutbush, I don't go along with the idea that someone stabbing women from behind couldn't have been the WM. God only knows what is going on in the mind of men running around extracting female organs.

But, in the end, I just think it needs something concrete to corroborate the newspaper article.

I think he's a worth a look. Perhaps someone can make a connection to this 'Mile End job'.

I agree. I’m wary when people suggest that we can predict how a someone like this would have acted. Who knows what might be going on in a deeply disturbed mind?

[Herlock Sholmes]

thanks herlock.

from just whats in the MM, he looks like an intriguing suspect-was in the area, Local avg joe Englishman, mental issues, proven attacker of women with knife, contemp police person of interest.
so why was Mac so quick to dismiss him in favor of others?

There’s no further detail in Bullock so I can’t say Abby. He does claim though, for what it’s worth with no sources, that after the trial in 1891 the two Sun journalists saw (in 1893) the Prosecutor De Michele’s brief and the instructions of the solicitor that defended Cutbush and found that he’d Ben suspected of being JTR. From the time of the trial Lloyds Weekly News said: “In certain police circles there is growing feeling that it (the Cutbush case) may in the end prove to be in some way connected with the darker and more tragic mysteries of the East End.” So at the very least it looks possible that the police considered him worth looking at.

Now we get a little conspiracy minded perhaps (which might raise an eyebrow or two coming from the arch anti-conspiracist) Bullock quotes the cases of Charles Lutwig who threatened to stab Alexander Finlay, he had a history of accosting women and had threatened a woman with a knife the same day, he was in custody for just a week (according to Bullock, I haven’t checked) and a doctor called John Donkin who in 1881 was imprisoned for assaulting a number of women. He got just 3 months. Yet Cutbush got sent to Broadmoor indefinitely as a category A prisoner. Sentences will often vary of course, but Bullock’s inference is ‘did they suspect him of being the ripper so they threw away the key?’

[Herlock Sholmes]

Anyone have an opinion on A.P. Wolf's book Jack the Myth?

I haven’t read that book since it first came out Scott. 30 years ago. I’ll have to give it another look when I get home.

[Scott Nelson]

Anyone have an opinion on A.P. Wolf's book Jack the Myth?

[Abby Normal]

No handwriting examples or photo.

His trial was 14th April 1891. Bullock says that Cutbush worked as a clerk for a tea company in the East End in 1888 as well as other jobs before and after though he provides no sources. Bullock also says that on April 19th 1891 Lloyd’s Weekly News demanded an investigation into Cutbush saying “In certain police circles there is growing feeling that it (the Cutbush case) may in the end prove to be in some way connected with the darker and more tragic mysteries of the East End.”

thanks herlock.

from just whats in the MM, he looks like an intriguing suspect-was in the area, Local avg joe Englishman, mental issues, proven attacker of women with knife, contemp police person of interest.
so why was Mac so quick to dismiss him in favor of others?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Bullock provides no sources so it rightly leaves him open for criticism. He says that his aunt and mother mention his anatomical drawings and that Inspector Race took some away with him which he showed to the journalists who wrote the 1894 series of articles. He also says that one of his employers criticised him for drawing when he should have been working but again, no sources. There are still some threads on here and JTRForums that I haven’t read so it’s possible that the information lies in research done on these. I just think that he’s a suspect that might deserve a better but than Bullock’s. Someone who can weed out the facts from the stories. Or at least put stories/rumours into context.

As I say, the murders look like someone who is having a field day experimenting and there appears to me to be no apparent motive beyond that. It has been reasonably suggested that this person did have anatomical knowledge but was not necessarily practicing. That would fit someone obsessed with anatomy and reading a lot of books.

Although it was never proven it was Cutbush, I don't go along with the idea that someone stabbing women from behind couldn't have been the WM. God only knows what is going on in the mind of men running around extracting female organs.

But, in the end, I just think it needs something concrete to corroborate the newspaper article.

I think he's a worth a look. Perhaps someone can make a connection to this 'Mile End job'.

[Herlock Sholmes]

good and interesting post. my points are:

• it's one thing some freak fantasizing and drawing about mutilations, and another thing entirely going through with mutilations in a way that was consistent with injuries to other victims (there is, as far as I know, only one suspect that did this)
• i don't think jtr was some evil genius but did cutbush have the calm and guile to evade capture, and ability to appear utterly normal to his victims and put them at ease - e.g., would kelly have invited cutbush back to her room?

?

I wouldn’t dispute your first point Wulf. The point about evading capture is also a fair one. Bullock relates the story of Cutbush escaping after attacking Isabella Anderson, one of the two he attacked whilst on the run. At 10pm a clerk called Robert Smith was walking along the Kennington Road when he heard a woman’s screams. Isabella Anderson was approaching him telling him that she’d felt a tug from behind then heard the sound of a knife cutting through her garments. Whilst talking she saw Cutbush running in the opposite direction and she pointed him out to Smith who gave chase. Cutbush ran into a milkman who he told that he’d been larking around with a girl and that her relatives were after him. The milkman agreed to hide him. If true (if) then it shows the ability to think on his feet. Or just lucky that he found a gullible milkman

Theres also a story of him being on holiday or at least during one of those periods where his mother sent him away due to his behaviour, possibly Norfolk? (I could be wrong on detail here Wulf because I don’t have the book with me) He ended up befriending a family called Crotty? He persuaded them that he was a medical man in need of rest after living a fast life. The man of the house ended up letting him treat 3 or 4 family members. So he wasn’t the drooling type but he was certainly ‘strange,’ ‘obsessive,’ ‘paranoid,’ and had a short fuse which could and sometimes did lead to violence. Doesn’t make him the ripper though of course. I find him intriguing though.

[Aethelwulf]

When people talk about their lists of likeliest suspects we get a variety of names that are so consistent that most of us could have a reasonable guess at the ones that most often appear on a top ten. One name that rarely gets mentioned these days though is Thomas Hayne Cutbush. I’ve thought for a while that he’s a decent suspect and I’ve intended to have a second look to refresh my memory so I re-read David Bullock’s book and looked through some old threads on here and over on JTTForums. My opinion is that Cutbush is too easily dismissed as a suspect. Compared to some that have emerged in recent years like Endacott, Hardiman, Mann and Bachert, he’s just way ahead. I think that he’s worth considering.

Age - He was 22 at the time of the murders so a little younger than the killer is generally expected to have been, but I don’t see it as much of an issue.

Private life - His father left when he was born so he was looked after and fussed over by his mother and her sister - he was academically unremarkable - eccentric - his aunt said that he used to look after bullied children

General Description - 5’9½” tall - slightly built - dark complexion - short whiskers - piercing dark blue eyes - so close to some of the descriptions - physically fit, scaled walls and fences.

Local Knowledge - Worked at various jobs in the East End, including one job where he travelled the area selling advertising space. (It’s worth mentioning that when Inspector Race mentioned having this knowledge he denied it)

Medical/Anatomical Knowledge - Had an obsessive interest in anatomy, had books and was always doing gruesome anatomical drawings, claimed that he wanted to enter the medical profession

Connection to prostitutes - Claimed that a prostitute gave him syphilis even though a Doctor said that he didn’t have it. Cutbush threatened to kill him.

Violence - Tried to slit his mothers throat - attacked two women with a large knife, stabbing one in the lower back - his aunt said that he’d taken a knife to a servant girl before being disturbed - pushed an old man downstairs because he commented that Cutbush was always looking in the mirror - his aunt told a journalist that before 1888 he had a relationship with a woman/prostitute which ended after he brutally attacked and raped her - he owned several knives - he assaulted a fellow inmate at Broadmoor - a solicitor said that Cutbush intended to murder him -

Mental state - He was sent to Broadmoor for life (something that has been seen as ‘strange’ considering that he was only charged with attacking two women. Others committing offences as serious got far less severe sentences so was there a reason for this?) - His aunt and mother said that he had an evil temper - very obsessive - vindictive - could think on his feet.

Habits - Was known to walk the streets at night returning in the early hours covered in mud and blood - he drew graphic anatomical images of mutilated women - he was obsessed with the idea that a prostitute had given him syphilis causing lesions on his face and threatened to kill the Doctor who said that he hadn’t got it - he talked to anyone that would listen about horrible disease and their causes and cures - he loved to shock - repeatedly sacked from jobs due to poor timekeeping

Additional points - in Cutbush’s attic room Inspector Race found bloodied clothing covered in turpentine stuffed up the chimney - although he’d worked extensively in the East End he denied, when asked by Race, any knowledge of the area - when arrested by Race, Cutbush asked him if it was to do with the Mile End job? Race knew nothing of this but years later learned of an incident of a man fitting Cutbush’s description going into a pub and sitting next to a prostitute who ended up screaming that he was the ripper - he made several references to ‘laying girls out’ - journalists saw the papers of the Barrister and Solicitor at Cutbush’s trial, both suspected him of being the ripper - why for only two attacks was he made a category A prisoner and placed among the most dangerous inmates? There are a few more things that I won’t go into as this is already quite s long post.

Cutbush appears to have way more going for him as a suspect than most so why is he pretty much ignored?

……

I do have one question though, it’s said that he had dark eyes but in his photograph he has light eyes? Why?

good and interesting post. my points are:

• it's one thing some freak fantasizing and drawing about mutilations, and another thing entirely going through with mutilations in a way that was consistent with injuries to other victims (there is, as far as I know, only one suspect that did this)
• i don't think jtr was some evil genius but did cutbush have the calm and guile to evade capture, and ability to appear utterly normal to his victims and put them at ease - e.g., would kelly have invited cutbush back to her room?

?