Broadmoor Archives finally open

[Robert]

Hi Vigilantee

Yes, one tends to go up to London or come down from London, in the same way that one goes up to Oxford or comes down from Cambridge (or is even sent down!)

I don't agree with your tree, though. Thomas Hayne Cutbush was the great grandson of Tom Flood Cutbush. This is the result of researches by Debra Arif and myself, and confirmed by a pedigree prepared for an early 1890s court case.

Robert

[Debra A]

I don't agree with your tree, though. Thomas Hayne Cutbush was the great grandson of Tom Flood Cutbush. This is the result of researches by Debra Arif and myself, and confirmed by a pedigree prepared for an early 1890s court case.

Robert

Hi Robert,
Did I read somewhere on the boards that you had news of a twist in the Cutbush tree? I was hoping that you'd come up with a link between THC and CHC.

Vigilantee,
Part of the genealogical research done by Robert and myself is online here

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=cut123&id=I3

This goes as far as Thomas Taylor Cutbush's descent from Tom Flood Cutbush. Thomas Taylor was the father of Thomas Hayne Cutbush.

[Robert]

Hi Debs

No, nothing to do with Uncle Charles. I'll try to sort it out and send it to you, though I can't go into it myself at the moment.

[Vigilantee]

Thanks for this. I'll have a conference with my genaeologist friend, find the sources, and get back to you...

[Vigilantee]

Though my 'psychic sense' tells me they were connected in some way, and I'm rarely wrong, its just finding the evidence that's tricky

[Vigilantee]

Okidoke, I concede ur excellent research on the Thomas branch, so here's the corrected version given that info.




Note: the top most *possibilities* are taken from the IGI census and marriage records online. If these are complete or near complete records these are the most likely genealogies. There are said to be records of the name Cutbush in Whitechapel (the earliest mention in London) going back to c1760, which would seem to indicate an unknown London founder (a Thomas?) prior to Thomas Hoskins Cutbush (est 1764-1844). Given that the records indicate the Cutbushes continually reuse about the same 12 christian names and that they tend on average to marry between their late teens and early twenties, its not hard to trace all the possible recorded Cutbush marriages that could have produced Thomas Hoskins Cutbush's dad. I can only find four and the one that fits best is a Thomas! He's from Maidstone as is another possible, while the third is from Rochester (the town immediately to the north Maidstone) while the forth is from Cranbrook, a village a few miles south of Maidstone. So I would say this strongly indicates the ancestors of THC came from Maidstone.

A similar study applied to Supt Charles Cutbush indicates a likely link back to Maidstone too and a possible close connection with Thomas' branch in the 1760s. And again there's possibly a repeating christian name in both branches taken from an ancestor from Maidstone. I think this indicates both were branches of the famous Maidstone Cutbush Family who became property developers in South London.

Obviously this is just a sketch but I'd suggest those with more time and resources than I have may find this rewarding to follow up and flesh out.

Its also an odd coincidence that Kearley the founder of Kealey & Tonge tea importers is also listed as a builder and property developer in London.

[Robert]

Thanks Vigilantee

I don't have the time to go into all this now, but as I said before there is a twist in the tree in the 18th century, which I won't mention at the moment because I think it's still being researched.

[Vigilantee]

Thanks Vigilantee

I don't have the time to go into all this now, but as I said before there is a twist in the tree in the 18th century, which I won't mention at the moment because I think it's still being researched.

Most intriguing

[Vigilantee]

Its been observed by genaeologist friends that the Thomas Cutbush family's habit of adopting the mother's maiden name as a middle name is extremely irregular, though its not hard to see why they did it given their Thomasophilia. Any thoughts on that?

Its seems the Charles Cutbush family had a similiar obsession but used new middle names as a distinction, if Supt Charles Henry is anything to go on.

Again I can't help feeling this obsession is to do with ancestoral claims, apparently derived from the influential Maidstone family, which itself is said by some to be descended from the medieval Taillebois family (at least that's where the name comes from in translation from Norman French to English, Taillebois='cutwood') who were descended from William the Conqueror's right hand man Ivo Taillebois. Just a little historical diversion there...


On another trail, do we know the name of THC's employers in Whitechapel?

[Robert]

Hi Vilgilantee

I'm afraid we don't know the name of the employers.

Re the middle name, it seems to me that this was a practice which was not confined to the Cutbushes by any means. In fact it's a bit of a godsend for genealogists!

[Vigilantee]

Its been observed by genaeologist friends that the Thomas Cutbush family's habit of adopting the mother's maiden name as a middle name is extremely irregular, though its not hard to see why they did it given their Thomasophilia.

Its seems the Charles Cutbush family had a similiar obsession but used new middle names as a distinction, if Supt Charles Henry is anyting to go on.

Again I can't help feeling this obsession is to do with ancestoral claims, apparently derived from the influential Maidstone family, which itself is said by some to be descended from the medieval Taillebois family (at least that's where the name comes from in translation from Norman French to English, Taillebois='cutwood') who were descended from William the Conqueror's right hand man Ivo Taillebois. Just a little historical diversion there...


On another trail, do we know the name of THC's employers in Whitechapel?

[Vigilantee]

Not sure why that posted twice

The maiden middle name thing is curious to me still, do you have any examples of it? Is it a particular local cultural or class thing or more widespread? Could it be to do with their connection with the colonies? We've been researching geneaologies for years and have only ever seen this habit in American families never in traditional English families before (though I've only specialised in those from the medieval period onwards). Your'e right on how useful it is though...

On the employer line, what if he was actually employed by K & T and this was known to the police?? The K & T warehouses would have been hard to miss, and some chandler's shops (Millers Court) also sell tea, plus there's the claim that Chapman was found near a tea establishment of some kind. If these latter two had K & T adverts prominent that would have been noted by any sharp detective I would have thought?

[Chris Scott]

The only mention I can see is that the place of his employment was near the Minories (see below)
In 1881 the only tea dealer in the Minories is as follows:
Name: Thomas R. Bone
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Botolph Aldgate
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 44 Minories
Occupation: Grocer & Tea Dealer
Registration district: London City
Sub registration district: St Botolph

[Robert]

Hi Vigilantee

He was in the business of canvassing for a trade directory, but I don't know which. I wish he had worked at K and T but as I say, so far we don't know.

As luck would have it, if you go to these two threads from today's posts, you will see examples of what look like surnames being used as middle names. It doesn't always have to be the mother's maiden name - it could sometimes be a name from the previous generation - but you get the idea.

The names "Brook" and "Nixon" :

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=55325#post55325

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=55319#post55319

[Debra A]

Hi Vigilantee,
Also, as well as Robert's examples, you only have to check the descendants tree I posted the link for to see how many of Luke Flood's descendants through the female lines were given the name Flood as a middle name.

Hi Chris, Robert,
The name Bone has come up in cutbush research before hasn't it, mentioned by AP I think? I seem to remember mentioning to Robert years ago that a man named Bone had a company that he ran under the name of Thomas Cutbush....I don't think I ever got to the bottom of that one though!