Cream's motive

[Lika]

Its well known he poisoned women but why should he suddenly start murdering women in such a grizzly matter?
I dont now why he poisoned the women but what if he snapped somehow?
What I think is he might have gotten something like a kick outta killing them and just wanted more and more of this "kick".

[Shelley]

The quick explaination Lika, Choice of MO in killing and the type of mind at work here.

[halomanuk]

Well Cream was incarcerated in the USA while the murders were happening here,so it rules him out of any involvement.

Unless you believe the 'double' story again (similar to Chapman's)..

[Mayerling]

I once wrote an article in THE CRIMINOLOGIST regarding Cream's motive in the four known poisonings of prostitutes (five if you include Ms Lou or Loo Harvey, who was smart enough to not take his strychnine laced pills) in 1891-92. There is a possible chance (actually suggested by Richard Altick in VICTORIAN STUDIES IN SCARLET) that Cream might have been suspected of being Fenian. Altick's evidence is curious, but not strong. When Cream was in Joliet Prison (working in the prison infirmary and drug store), one of the officials working in the prison was Thomas Miller Beach, a noted agent of the British Government in America watching Fenian activities. However there was nothing really showing Cream identifying with the Irish (he was from a Scottish family, and he lived in Canada and the U.S.). However his choice of "blackmail" targets was curious. His first was the son and heir of W.H. Smith, the Tory political leader in the House of Commons (and founder of the
publishing house), who was known for his probity. Smith Sr. died in October 1891, just as Cream set up in London from North America, on the same day as Charles Stewart Parnell did. Parnell's fall from power due to the O'Shea Divorce was used by the press to condemn the Home Rule Party leader in comparison to the honourable Tory leader. Cream may have aimed his first killing and blackmail plans against W.H.'s son and heir (and soon his successor to the House of Commons seat) Frederick Smith. In fact the witnesses to the first murder said the Victim called the man who gave her the pills, "Fred". It may be that Cream (at least in that first murder) possibly showed a pro-Irish slant. One really can't say more than that.

Jeff

[kayfgibbs]

Cream not the actual murderer....

Possibly Cream didn't actually commit the Ripper acts. Cream's dysfunctional childhood may have left behind some evil thoughts before he ever left England.

[Mayerling]

Hi Kayfgibbs,

You are the first person to suggest Cream's family was dysfunctional. Where did you learn that?

Jeff

[Normy]

Hiya all
Not that I believe it but an interesting theory having a look a like, he was the oldest of eight brothers and sisters so he could have had one that resembled him.
Also doesn't he have a horse shoe tie pin in this photo:

http://photos.casebook.org/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10&pos=-439

like Hutchinson's description of the man he saw in his statement?

Normy

[Normy]

Hiya all

Flora Elizabeth Brooks soon became the victim of an unwanted pregnancy, and Cream took it upon himself to perform his own abortion, nearly killing Brooks.

Cream returned to Canada a few years later, and, undaunted by his previous mishap, began a career as an abortionist. His reputation was quite promising until the body of a young chambermaid named Kate Gardener was discovered at Cream's office, a bottle of chloroform lying beside her. Luckily for Cream, he was not charged with murder, despite the harrowing evidence against him.

Maybe he was fixated with abortions or got a kick out of operating in 'that neck of the woods'.
I don't know if surroundings would/could dictate a change in M.O.
Outside he might have prefered to cut someone up but indoors, drug them. I have read it mentioned that chloroform might have been used on the Rippers victims.

Cheers
Normy

[miss marple]

life sentence

Why is Cream on suspect's list ,when he was serving a life sentence in America in Joliet Prison Illinois and only released in 1891?
Cream should be in Shades of Whitechapel not suspects.
He was an interesting case, but not the ripper.
Miss Marple

[lynn cates]

old dogs; new tricks

Hello. Dr. Cream, I suppose, is still here because it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

I recall 30-40 years ago, when I first got interested in Jack, there was a magazine article (Reader's Digest?) that pretty well had Jack as Dr. Cream. We were all sure, back then, that it had to be a Doctor who had a vendetta against prostitutes. And so we watched Berman and Baker's "Jack the Ripper" movie and got sick when he got crushed underneath the lift. It's all part of the fantasy.

Those were the days!

LC

[RavenDarkendale]

What are we to do with the fact he was in Joliet Prison in the USA during 1888? Or that he was a poisoner, not a slasher?

[ChainzCooper]

What are we to do with the fact he was in Joliet Prison in the USA during 1888? Or that he was a poisoner, not a slasher?

Come on thats a conspiracy everyone knows that just like Orenthal's blood being planted by Mark Fuhrman or that photographs show Oswald holding the rifle are forgeries. Lets not let facts get in the way of our theory
Jordan

[DarkPassenger]

Its well known he poisoned women but why should he suddenly start murdering women in such a grizzly matter?
I dont now why he poisoned the women but what if he snapped somehow?
What I think is he might have gotten something like a kick outta killing them and just wanted more and more of this "kick".

JTR was sexually aroused by blood and particularly, mutilation. Cream was a poisoner. Totally different MO and signature.

Besides, Cream has been long-eliminated as a Ripper suspect as he was in jail in America when the killings happen.

BTW serial killers (or spree killers, or school shooters for that matter) do not "just snap." None of them.

[Amanda]

Cream's Motives

For anyone interested in the life & crimes of Dr.Thomas Neill Cream, you may find my book 'Prisoner 4374' answers many questions about his motives and movements.
Due for publication at the end of May, it is the result of a decade of research in to Cream's life and includes many previously unpublished photos and documents, including papers from Cream's extensive Joliet prison file.

I will post the Amazon link here as soon as it is released.
Amanda (A.J.Griffiths-Jones)

[Mayerling]

For anyone interested in the life & crimes of Dr.Thomas Neill Cream, you may find my book 'Prisoner 4374' answers many questions about his motives and movements.
Due for publication at the end of May, it is the result of a decade of research in to Cream's life and includes many previously unpublished photos and documents, including papers from Cream's extensive Joliet prison file.

I will post the Amazon link here as soon as it is released.
Amanda (A.J.Griffiths-Jones)

I'll be very interested in this, as the last book about Cream was one written in the 1990s.

Jeff