Kaminski and Eddowes

Elisabeth Stride has a Thimble listed among her possesions

I had forgotten that Belinda, point awarded. It seems in keeping with someone that might carry swatches of fabric around...which Liz would also have done had she not passed it off to her lodgemate before leaving for the night.

We do have cause for belief that she sewed as well....and that she likely carried most of what she owned with her.

My best regards

[belinda]

Elisabeth Stride has a Thimble listed among her possesions

[lynn cates]

problems galore

Hello Mike. I'll say. Everything was nice and normal (um, well, for a sexual mutilator) in C1 and C2. Now, on one night, problems galore.

I almost see an affinity between Kate and Mary Jane. I suppose it is merely ironic that, in the legend, Deeming confesses to the last 2? Another irony is in the 2 faces and the cuts to the face.

I suppose I must leave these matters to more astute minds than mine.

The best.
LC

I see you went ahead with this thought Lynn.... ....so far so good too.

The contents of Kates pockets showed us that she carried everything that she likely owned outright on her person, so the thimble may have been a cottage industry tool to her, and not a knocking windows tool that Monty mentioned. No other Canonical or otherwise was reported to have a thimble on them to my knowledge. If Kelly was telling the truth about their habits and lifestyle, that they slept together almost every night and Kate was not out soliciting all the time,..then that thimble takes on more of a utilitarian item element I think.

This murder is by far the most baffling of them all to me. The convoluted story about her last 24 hours, the fact that Kelly doesnt even seem to miss the woman he slept most every night with until a day or 2 after her murder....yet he knew she was in jail at some point on Saturday...all of the closest people in proximity to Kate as she is being murdered are current or ex-policeman, and she was in their custody just 35 minutes before she supposedly meets her killer. The timings of the stories that have everyone just missing seeing something. The new "Ripper" wounds. The fact that only on this murder does the killer take something from a victim and just discard it later off a public street, instead of a trash bin. She is nowhere near where she would find Kelly...if she would look for him after her release....as his tale of their life seems to indicate she should. Where did she get drinking money before dark?

Lots of issues there.

Best regards

[belinda]

Interesting thread.If I'd been one of the women living in Whitechappel at the time and I thought I knew who it was I'd have been to scared to tell anybody the way Kate is supposed to have.If Jack even thought somebody really knew who he was that would be enough reason to go after them.
I like to think I'd have had the courage to go to the police reward or no reward but and there is always a but,what if they couldn't find enough evidence to arrest him?That would have put me off.I think some of the women must have known but were put off doing anything by similar reasons.

I can picture them sitting together in the Pubs going over it, warning each other to stay away from Mr X É was a right strange un

[lynn cates]

jaundiced eye

Hello Supe. Thanks. I have seen this article but never read it.

It appears I'll have to read Begg et al. with a jaundiced eye.

Cheers.
LC

[Supe]

Lynn,

You might want to check this out for an analysis of the tale about Kate, the reward and knowing the Ripper: Grave-Spitting & Other Tall Tales

Don.

[lynn cates]

traveling salesman

Hello Monty. That was a new one on me. Thanks.

It seems reminiscent of the old joke where the traveling salesman knocks on the lady's door and she answers. "Excuse me, Miss," says he, "but is your husband at home?" "No." she replies, grinning. "Come on in."

The best.
LC

[Monty]

Hi Lynn,

The A-Z doesnt cite its sources. However I wager its from the same news report as the one Ive cited. And Id also wager you will find it in no other news report nor police/ HO file.

Thimble knocking. It was, apparrantly, common practice for prostitutes to wear thimbles and knock upon windowsills as they passed by. A calling card as it were to indicate to those inside that they would be around.

Nina Brown (though Thonas at the time) wrote a wonderful article on it some years past.

Monty

[lynn cates]

thimble knocking

Hello Monty. Begg et al. seem to relate it as a cut above mere hearsay. Perhaps they have been co-opted?

Thimble knocking?

Thanks.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

rush job

Hello Supe. Thanks. I could not help notice the informality of the "sweaters" who were doing piece work to attach buttons, etc.

Yes, Sam's article is very interesting. I have read it two or three times. I have never regarded the flaps as conveying any special meaning. I think the Ripper was far too rushed to worry about symbols.

Thanks.

The best.
LC

[Supe]

Lynn,

There is no evidence any of the Canonic Five was ever engaged in the boot-making trade. And, while there has been much speculation about Kate's thimble, the most simple explanation is the most likely. When murdered it would seem Kate had all her meager possessions on her. Given that, the most likely explanation is that the thimble was used for making repairs to her clothing (and Kelly's) when necessary.

As for the triangular flap wounds on Kate's face, Gareth Williams (Sam Flynn) had an excellent article, "By Accident or Design: A Critical Analysis of the Murder of Catherine Eddowes" in Ripperologist 73 (November 2006) on that subject. The article is available in the Dissertations section of Casebook.

Don.

[Monty]

Hello Monty. I was paraphrasing pp. 122 & 3, Begg, Fido, and Skinner "The Jack the Ripper A-Z." Perhaps there is an error?

The best.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Im not at home at the moment so cannot refer to the A-Z.

However, the story stems from the East London Observer news report dated Saturday 13th October 1888 which reads -

A reporter gleaned some curious information from the Casual Ward Superintendent of Mile End, regarding Kate Eddowes, the Mitre-square victim. She was formerly well-known in the casual wards there, but had disappeared for a considerable time until the Friday preceding her murder. Asking the woman where she had been in the interval, the superintendent was met with the reply, that she had been in the country "hopping". "But," added the woman, "I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him." "Mind he doesn't murder you too" replied the superintendent jocularly. "Oh, no fear of that," was the remark made by Kate Eddowes as she left. Within four-and-twenty hours afterwards she was a mutilated corpse.

The story is merely hearsay and holds no supoorting evidence. In fact, earlier on in the report another passage reads -

Some extraordinary stories are being told regarding people who allege that they could easily identify the murderer. A reporter who visited the wards of St. George's East Infirmary interviewed, in the ward devoted to unfortunates, a woman named "Jenny," who stated that she was absolutely sure of the identity of the murderer. She described him as a foreigner who habitually went about blackmailing unfortunate women, and threatening occasionally to rip them up. Another "unfortunate" alleges that on the Saturday night, an hour or so prior to the latest tragedies, she was accosted by a man in Shadwell, who desired her to accompany him to a dark court or alley in the neighbourhood. She refused to go anywhere except to her own house, and the man, finding her firm in this determination, at last left her. She disliked from the first the peculiar look of the man, who, she is convinced, is the murderer; and she adds that she could easily identify him again. Again, a well-known medical man in East London has communicated information regarding a former assistant of his, who, he is equally convinced, is the man needed. He spent all his money amongst loose women in Whitechapel, and eventually contracted a disease, which utterly ruined his prospects and sent him mad. Ever since that time he has cherished the most intense hatred of these women, and has repeatedly declared his intention of revenging himself upon them. - Finally, a seaman named Dodge has given information of a Malay who cherishes a peculiar hatred against "unfortunates," and who, he adds, would not hesitate at any crime. He lives, he says, somewhere in the East India-road.

Such stories were rife.

With regards Eddowes thimble. Have you ever heard of thimble knocking?

Monty

[lynn cates]

sweaters

Hello. Good golly. I just read an interesting piece on Victorian "sweaters" employed in the boot making trade.

http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications3/newtoilers-23.htm

Didn't Kate and one or more of the other 5 canonicals have buttons/thimbles on them when they died? Were they part time "sweaters"? Are they connected to the shoe/boot trade?

I wonder if Mr. Fido has researched this angle?

LC

[lynn cates]

A-Z

Hello Monty. I was paraphrasing pp. 122 & 3, Begg, Fido, and Skinner "The Jack the Ripper A-Z." Perhaps there is an error?

The best.
LC