What do we know about this character?

[Grim]

Why are there no posts about him yet?

[Lord-z]

Why no posts? Because you do not suspect him as being the Ripper if your brain is even the slightest bit functional.

As for what we know about him, quite a lot. His life was reasonably well documented, being a famous writer and all.

[Grim]

Why no posts? Because you do not suspect him as being the Ripper if your brain is even the slightest bit functional.

I never said I didn't suspect him. For all you know he may be my primary suspect. Believe me when I say my brain is far more functional than yours.

If this man is indeed a suspect and has a forum dedicated to him then more information regarding said character should be in the suspect frame to the left of this site.

[Lord-z]

I have no doubt that your brain is working, which is why I am sure that he is not your main suspect.


The entire reason for suspecting Carroll, or Dogdson, is based on a shoddy anagramisation of choice sentences of his work. And if the anagramiser(?) can't get the anagram to work, why, he changes a few letters to make it work.

And, honestly, the only reason why he is here is because the site is going after being as complete as possible, with every single suspect, no matter how unlikely.

[Grim]

I have no doubt that your brain is working, which is why I am sure that he is not your main suspect.


The entire reason for suspecting Carroll, or Dogdson, is based on a shoddy anagramisation of choice sentences of his work. And if the anagramiser(?) can't get the anagram to work, why, he changes a few letters to make it work.

And, honestly, the only reason why he is here is because the site is going after being as complete as possible, with every single suspect, no matter how unlikely.

Thank you for answering my question.

God bless!

[Shelley]

Blimey, i would have thought Henry Turner to be more of a candidate than Lewis Carroll. Carroll was a children's book writer. It was Charles Dickens who was also a writer & criminologist, who helped to cease public hangings.

[prowling cat]

Gosh, what a lovely thought. It is a pity Dickens died in 1870, he'd have made a wonderful suspect, with his incredible knowledge of the East End.
I'm not a very knowledgeable ripperologist (yet) but I feel that Carroll has often been seen as odd, because of his relationship with the Liddell girls - that's another can of worms, no need to open it here.
Probably that sent people on to his scent as a probable Ripper candidate in the first place.
Cat

[babybird67]

oh i dont know

dead in 1870 shouldnt rule him out, surely?

[Jane Welland]

Lovely!

The entire reason for suspecting Carroll, or Dogdson, is based on a shoddy anagramisation of choice sentences of his work. And if the anagramiser(?) can't get the anagram to work, why, he changes a few letters to make it work.



Anagrammatist!

But I like yours better!

Jane x

[Justin]

I spent two years conducting non JTR-related Carroll research. Quite aside from the ridiculous anagrams -- and the fact that nothing in Carroll's very well-documented life can be considered violent -- he was in Oxford or elsewhere when the murders were committed!

Worth adding to the defence, that's all

[Jane Welland]

Hello Justin

In Oxford, you say? Oh well. Quelle Surprise-although, has absence ever stopped Prince Eddy? Hmm. You say you spent some time looking into Carroll-did you consider him a serious suspect at one time? I don't know much about him, other than the usual. Jane x

[Justin]

My work on Carroll was not Ripper-related -- I was studying his (very beautiful) photography. I'd long before known the Ripper allegations to be absurd on their face, but still, doesn't hurt to put Carroll's rock-solid alibi on the record!

Incidentally, Carroll went up to Oxford in 1851 and spent the majority of his life there. He did a first in maths and a second in classics at Christ Church, where he later became a maths don. In 1881 he retired to write books, but he rarely left Oxford.

[Jane Welland]

Thanks Justin

For clarifying - studying his photographs sounds lovely, yes. I am vaguely aware of his interest in photography - I'm quite sure information is generally absorbed by osmosis at times!

As to anagrams - I love them, personally - there's a sense of mystery about them, I think, which is why they fit so well into mysterious affairs - secret codes and all that.

I think the problem with the reality of secret anagrams, as opposed to fictional or fanciful anagrams, is that they are too easily discovered and too easily misinterpreted. Trouble is - if a set of letters can make two meanings, chances are they can make three, four or five.

Not a great deal of good as a secret code, I imagine.

But jolly good for stories!

Jane x

[John Hacker]

Gosh, what a lovely thought. It is a pity Dickens died in 1870, he'd have made a wonderful suspect, with his incredible knowledge of the East End.
I'm not a very knowledgeable ripperologist (yet) but I feel that Carroll has often been seen as odd, because of his relationship with the Liddell girls - that's another can of worms, no need to open it here.
Probably that sent people on to his scent as a probable Ripper candidate in the first place.
Cat

Carroll ended up as a suspect because a psychologist named Richard Wallace wrote a biography of him where he felt that Carroll was seriosly disturbed. (The Agony of Lewis Carroll) Then he decided that since Carroll was obviously an insane pervert who loved anagrams, so he delved deeply into his OWN psyche and found anagrams that he felt showed Carroll was the Ripper. He then wrote a fun little piece of lunacy called "Jack the Ripper:
Lighthearted Friend".

He "found" anagrams like this:

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Which becomes:

Bet I beat my glands til,
With hand-sword I slay the evil gender.
A slimey theme; borrow gloves,
And masturbate the hog more!

Of course you can rearrange letters to make pretty much anything you want as some college students showed when they took the opening paragraph of a Wallce article:

This is my story of Jack the Ripper, the man behind Britain's worst unsolved murders. It is a story that points to the unlikeliest of suspects: a man who wrote children's stories. That man is Charles Dodgson, better known as Lewis Carroll, author of such beloved books as Alice in Wonderland.

And "found":

The truth is this: I, Richard Wallace, stabbed and killed a muted Nicole Brown in cold blood, severing her throat with my trusty shiv's strokes. I set up Orenthal James Simpson, who is utterly innocent of this murder. P.S. I also wrote Shakespeare's sonnets, and a lot of Francis Bacon's works too.

Which is a much better anagram IMO. And I think it really illustrates one of the fundamental truths of suspect based Ripperology... you can always find what you look for.. no matter how non-sensical. (Another excellent illustration of this point is Trow's "The Way to Hell")

See http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ack-the-ripper for more.

[prowling cat]

oh, it was anagrams as clues. Do crosswords also count?

Obviously jumped a step, sorry, John, I remembered an article on his presumed obsession in photographing rather undressed young girls, and as you say, imagined that somebody, deciding he was a pervert, decided he was JtR! Thanks for giving me the details to fill in my sketchy surmise on how he was chosen. I hope I didn't give the impression I thought him a likely suspect, though.
Will read the names of crossword writers with new suspicion from now on
Buone notte
Cat