Is Bury the best suspect we have?

[Lewis C]

In Newbie's defense, this thread invites comparisons between suspects. How is one to answer John's question, "Is Bury the best suspect?" without mentioning other suspects? There would be no point of reference.

Perhaps the whole premise of the thread is flawed. It's not really a Bury thread; it's a "my suspect is better than yours" thread, which (in my opinion) has limited value anyway.

Still, if one wants to go into great detail about a marginal subject like Tom Cross's alleged alcoholism, it's probably best to do it elsewhere.

Good points, RJ.

[rjpalmer]

Remember all roads (threads) lead to Lechmere...

In Newbie's defense, this thread invites comparisons between suspects. How is one to answer John's question, "Is Bury the best suspect?" without mentioning other suspects? There would be no point of reference.

Perhaps the whole premise of the thread is flawed. It's not really a Bury thread; it's a "my suspect is better than yours" thread, which (in my opinion) has limited value anyway.

Still, if one wants to go into great detail about a marginal subject like Tom Cross's alleged alcoholism, it's probably best to do it elsewhere.

[Lewis C]

Newbie mentioned that he had more to say on the subject, and I ask of him that if he decides to do that, please do it in a Lechmere thread.

[John Wheat]

Remember all roads (threads) lead to Lechmere...

It's ridiculous really Cross gets so many threads and there is nothing whatsoever to suggest he was Jack and other suspects who may have been Jack get there threads highjacked by Lechmereians.

[Geddy2112]

yup. I tried too. i was ignored lol

Remember all roads (threads) lead to Lechmere...

[Abby Normal]

Excuse me, but isn't this supposed to be a Bury thread- not yet ANOTHER "Cross done did it" thread?

yup. I tried too. i was ignored lol

[C. F. Leon]

Excuse me, but isn't this supposed to be a Bury thread- not yet ANOTHER "Cross done did it" thread?

[Fiver]

But now they are getting cheeky and pretending that Lechmere had a trauma free childhood .... which we know was not the case.

You have claimed that Lechmere's stepfather was an abusive alcoholic. You have provided no evidence for your claim, just a mix of selectively interpreting and outright ignoring the medical evidence.

[Fiver]

Yes, you do .... you just don't understand what is in front of you. Drospy and uremia, and there were a few other descriptors of his failing health listed, are symptoms of failing internal organs due to end stage alcoholism. Alcoholic poisoning is the only plausible etiology for the symptoms listed .... dropsy alone, back in 1888, was the catch all medical term for the effects of alcoholism ... but modern medicine would perceive the other tell tale symptoms listed. We had this debate a year ago, and the anti-Lechmerites ended up conceding the point and pivoting towards the so-what, that doesn't make him a serial killer posturing.

I invite people to read the actual debate. Newbie makes the claim in post #222. I can't find anyone that "conceded the point" and agreed with Newbie's diagnosis.

[Fiver]

To which I would only add that, after literally decades living near or very near to his Ma, Lechmere's sudden move all the way out to Doveton Street didn't happen for no reason.

We have no idea why the Charles Allen Lechmere family moved to Doveton Street. 22 Doveton may have been a nicer neighborhood than 20 James Street. Or perhaps they needed more room after the birth of Harriet Emma. Or maybe the price was better. Or the location got their children into better schools. Or some combination of the same.

But there are no indications that there was anything sinister behind the move.

[Fiver]

Did you notice the possibility of sexual abuse being a consequence of an alcoholic parent? And what exactly was Lechmere's 17 year old daughter doing living with grand ma? One possibility is that it is a family dealing with sexual molestation .... wouldn't you agree? This sort of nasty behavior is often passed down from old victim to new victim within families.

There is no evidence that Thomas Cross was an alcoholic. There's a good chance that John Allen Lechmere was an alcoholic, but he had deserted the family some time between 1849 and 1851, well before his son's second birthday.

Your theory about Mary Jane Lechmere makes no sense. She did start living with her grandmother before she turned 6, but her older sister Elizabeth, as well as younger sisters Louisa and Emily continued to live with their parents. Nor did Mary Jane seem estranged from the rest of the family - she and her father were witnesses at her older sister Elizabeth's wedding. Her father and little sister Louisa were witnesses at Mary Jane's wedding.

[Fiver]

And btw, Lechmere had childhood trauma: step dad was an alcoholic whose death certificate listed the symptoms of organ failure due to heavy drinking. Remember our little discussion on this last time I was here? Do you think its fun and laughter living with a step dad who drinks himself to death by the middle 30s?

There is no evidence that Thomas Cross was an alcoholic.

Thomas Cross' cause of death was Fatty degeneration, Dropsy, and Uroemia. It does not mention what organ or organs were suffering from fatty degeneration, but steosis is not confined to the liver. In the liver it is caused by alcoholism, obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and hepatitis. In other organs it can be caused by obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and apnea.

Dropsy (edema) is caused by problems with the heart, liver, kidneys, or veins. There is no direct tie to alcoholism.

Uroemia is kidney failure. Causes are diabetes, high blood pressure, injuries to the kidney, and genetic defects. There is no direct tie to alcoholism.

Yet you ignore all other possibilities and assume Thomas Cross was not just an alcoholic, but an abusive one.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can you post the evidence that shows Cross had trauma in his childhood?

Allow me to answer that one Geddy - no he can't. There is none.

[Geddy2112]

But now they are getting cheeky and pretending that Lechmere had a trauma free childhood .... which we know was not the case.

Can you post the evidence that shows Cross had trauma in his childhood?

[Geddy2112]

Ted Bundy didn't kill in a small area .... but the Ripper did, what is your point? Most everyone except you are convinced that the Ripper
was intimately familiar with the streets in which he killed ... the double event being one clear example of that knowledge.

Did Jack have a VW Beetle?

Did Peter Sutcliffe kill in a small area some distance away from his home? No, he did not. What was your point in bringing him and Bundy into the discussion again?

Did Peter have access to a car as well? Bring Neilson into it. He killed in a very small area, i.e. his house. Bring Fred West into it likewise.

Sutcliffe's father btw was an (abusive) alcoholic .... so, he shares that with Lech.

Why do Team Lechmere always 'bring folk in' who they think can provide a tenuous link to Lechmere and think it proves anything. How about Ian Brady, he had two feet and two hands, so did Lechmere... lets bring him in.