Why William Henry Bury may have been Jack

[John Wheat]

In this post I'm going to outline briefly in bullet points why Bury may well have been Jack the Ripper.

Bury killed his former Prostitute Wife Ellen in a similar manner to the C5.
Chalk messages were found at Bury's flat in Dundee. E.G. 'Jack the Ripper is at the back of this door'. In my opinion the chalk messages were written by Bury.
Bury reportedly confessed to his hangman James Berry to being Jack the Ripper.
Ellen Bury reportedly said 'Jack the Ripper' is quiet now about Bury in Bury's company.
Bury fits the F.B.I.'s profile of Jack the Ripper well.
Bury was violent towards Ellen and even held a knife to her throat on one occasion.
Bury was known to use Prostitutes in London.

[Herlock Sholmes]

In this post I'm going to outline briefly in bullet points why Bury may well have been Jack the Ripper.

Bury killed his former Prostitute Wife Ellen in a similar manner to the C5.
Chalk messages were found at Bury's flat in Dundee. E.G. 'Jack the Ripper is at the back of this door'. In my opinion the chalk messages were written by Bury.
Bury reportedly confessed to his hangman James Berry to being Jack the Ripper.
Ellen Bury reportedly said 'Jack the Ripper' is quiet now about Bury in Bury's company.
Bury fits the F.B.I.'s profile of Jack the Ripper well.
Bury was violent towards Ellen and even held a knife to her throat on one occasion.
Bury was known to use Prostitutes in London.

And if Kelly was the final murder we have with Bury an explanation for the cessation.

[John Wheat]

And if Kelly was the final murder we have with Bury an explanation for the cessation.

Good point Herlock.

[GBinOz]

In this post I'm going to outline briefly in bullet points why Bury may well have been Jack the Ripper.

Bury killed his former Prostitute Wife Ellen in a similar manner to the C5.
I have been reading threads on Alice McKenzie and noted your objection to her being a ripper victim on the basis of "wouldn't we see a MJK amount of mutilation?" and Sam Flynn's objection "Was her throat deeply cut from side to side? No. Was her abdomen deeply and extensively cut? No. Was she eviscerated? No.". It appears to me that these objections apply equally to Ellen Bury. Every one of the C5 had their throats cut. Ellen did not. The cuts to Ellen's abdomen were relatively few and shallow compared to Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly's eviscerations, and there was no interruption as is thought with Nichols and Stride. I fail to see how the injuries visited upon Ellen were similar to the C5.

Chalk messages were found at Bury's flat in Dundee. E.G. 'Jack the Ripper is at the back of this door'. In my opinion the chalk messages were written by Bury.
I agree that they were probably written by Bury as part of his fantasy, and/or to intimidate Ellen. The neighbours and the police thought they were written by a child prior to Bury's arrival.

Bury reportedly confessed to his hangman James Berry to being Jack the Ripper.
AFAIK Berry reported that Bury said something like "I suppose you think you're clever hanging ME!", intimating that Bury thought he was someone special. But Berry's book made no mention of Bury, and in his article to a newspaper in 1927 he expressed only an opinion that Bury may have been the ripper. Can you point to the source of this confession to which you refer?

Ellen Bury reportedly said 'Jack the Ripper' is quiet now about Bury in Bury's company.
Part of the intimidation and/or attention seeking, and Ellen's acquiescence.

Bury fits the F.B.I.'s profile of Jack the Ripper well.
As do many others.

Bury was violent towards Ellen and even held a knife to her throat on one occasion.
Violence towards wives was common, and largely accepted, at the time.

Bury was known to use Prostitutes in London.
As were many other men in London.

Hi John,

Had Bury walked into the police station on the night of Ellen's death and reported her as a suicide, IMO he may have gotten away with it. The jury at the time, and also in the case of the recent retrial, drew the conclusion that there was too much conflicting medical evidence to come to a clear verdict, the latter actually acquitting him. Instead he walked into Dundee police station and reported a suicide, and then added that he had mutilated the body to attempt disposal but had become too squeamish to continue, and was now afraid that it may be thought that he was Jack the Ripper. I find myself un-persuaded that the man who was far from squeamish in the C5 murders, and had evaded all attempts to deduce his identity, suddenly develops a weak stomach and calmly gives himself up? He had the packing case pre-prepared and could have disposed of her body and disappeared. But instead he appears to have sought some notoriety for his actions.

It has been suggested that if MJK was the last murder, then Bury's departure is the explanation. But if Ellen was a victim of JtR, then MJK wasn't the last victim, as can also be said of McKenzie (circular reasoning?).

I am aware that Bury is your choice of suspect and I don't wish to be disparaging of your opinion, but IMHO McKenzie is a far more likely victim of JtR than Ellen Bury but....that's JMO.

Cheers, George

[John Wheat]

Hi John,

Had Bury walked into the police station on the night of Ellen's death and reported her as a suicide, IMO he may have gotten away with it. The jury at the time, and also in the case of the recent retrial, drew the conclusion that there was too much conflicting medical evidence to come to a clear verdict, the latter actually acquitting him. Instead he walked into Dundee police station and reported a suicide, and then added that he had mutilated the body to attempt disposal but had become too squeamish to continue, and was now afraid that it may be thought that he was Jack the Ripper. I find myself un-persuaded that the man who was far from squeamish in the C5 murders, and had evaded all attempts to deduce his identity, suddenly develops a weak stomach and calmly gives himself up? He had the packing case pre-prepared and could have disposed of her body and disappeared. But instead he appears to have sought some notoriety for his actions.

It has been suggested that if MJK was the last murder, then Bury's departure is the explanation. But if Ellen was a victim of JtR, then MJK wasn't the last victim, as can also be said of McKenzie (circular reasoning?).

I am aware that Bury is your choice of suspect and I don't wish to be disparaging of your opinion, but IMHO McKenzie is a far more likely victim of JtR than Ellen Bury but....that's JMO.

Cheers, George

Hi George

Could you give your source as to what Bury said? I was under the impression that Bury mentioned the Ripper in a drunken state and that we don't know exactly what Bury said. When looking at Ellen Bury's murder I think it's important to bear in mind that Bury couldn't mutilate Ellen and leave her on the streets of Dundee. As she was his wife and not a prostitute with nothing tying him to her. I'm not sure why you believe Mckenzie is a far more likely Ripper victim than Ellen Bury. There's the time gap to explain for a start.

Cheers John

[Herlock Sholmes]

From a few sparse notes that I made whilst reading the Macpherson book we have - Bury goes to the police station on Sunday 10th February at 6.50 and speaks to Lieutenant James Parr. Parr said that Bury appeared sober but Bury said that he’d been drinking. He said that he and his wife had been drinking on the 4th and he woke to find her dead with a rope around her neck. He was then seized with an impulse to stab her in the abdomen several times with a large knife. He then panicked that the police might think that he was the ripper so he put her body into a box.

Parr then took Bury upstairs to the Detective department where he talked to Lamb and Campbell. Bury said that he’d only stabbed her once and made no mention of JtR. He was searched and they found a penknife. Apparently The Dundee Advertiser said the Bury made a remark about JtR but that the Lieutenant didn’t understand what he meant, but the Dundee Courier said that Bury had said that he was JtR or ‘a JtR’.

I don’t have the books by Beadle or Macpherson with me to check the facts although they will all be on the Bury website.

[Lewis C]

Had Bury walked into the police station on the night of Ellen's death and reported her as a suicide, IMO he may have gotten away with it. The jury at the time, and also in the case of the recent retrial, drew the conclusion that there was too much conflicting medical evidence to come to a clear verdict, the latter actually acquitting him. Instead he walked into Dundee police station and reported a suicide, and then added that he had mutilated the body to attempt disposal but had become too squeamish to continue, and was now afraid that it may be thought that he was Jack the Ripper. I find myself un-persuaded that the man who was far from squeamish in the C5 murders, and had evaded all attempts to deduce his identity, suddenly develops a weak stomach and calmly gives himself up? He had the packing case pre-prepared and could have disposed of her body and disappeared. But instead he appears to have sought some notoriety for his actions.

Hi George,

Maybe Bury was lying about being too squeamish to continue. I'll grant that calmly giving himself up isn't what I would expect JtR to do.

[kjab3112]

I’m going to try to be unbiased (I’ve no preference but as a human there will inevitably be some unconscious bias)

• Was Bury capable physically? Yes, he disposed of his wife’s body in a box, even if not responsible this suggest capacity physically
• Was he present in London at the time? Possibly, we don’t know when he returned from the West Midlands
• Does he have the physical skills? His wife was murdered and then her limbs broken to dispose of the body. Although similar I’d suggest lacking skill
• Does he match witness statements? Short with a beard, not ruled out but not definite!

I’d suggest person of interest, but little more (dependent on further investigation).

The graffiti and his statement are damning, but not definitive. Ellen was not killed in a clean and silent way, unlike the canonical 5. Killer yes, Jack no

[GBinOz]

Hi George

Could you give your source as to what Bury said? I was under the impression that Bury mentioned the Ripper in a drunken state and that we don't know exactly what Bury said. When looking at Ellen Bury's murder I think it's important to bear in mind that Bury couldn't mutilate Ellen and leave her on the streets of Dundee. As she was his wife and not a prostitute with nothing tying him to her. I'm not sure why you believe Mckenzie is a far more likely Ripper victim than Ellen Bury. There's the time gap to explain for a start.

Cheers John

Hi John,

There are many sources, which contain contradictions, particularly from the press, as usual, but my understanding is that Parr stated that Bury did not confess to being the ripper.

I fully agree that there is a profound difference between the street attacks and a domestic murder. The former presents no obligation to conceal the crime, quite the opposite in fact, but the later is obliged to either conceal the crime or suffer the consequences. Bury's murder of Ellen seems pre-meditated, as the method of concealment, the crate, and the rope was in place before the murder. Deeming also planned his domestic murders in advance, but carried through with the concealments and continued to endeavour to escape justice. Bury made the preparations but then chose to abandon his plan and, four days later, present the police with what seems to me to be a totally bizarre story, and this is a big part of why I think he was a wife murderer, but not a serial killer. However, I will concede the possibility of his involvement in the Rose Mylett murder (only), that possibly being the reason for his departure from London.

As for Alice McKenzie:
She had two cuts to the vital areas of her neck.
She had abdominal cuts.
She was found with her dress hiked up and her legs and lower abdomen exposed.
There are conflicting reports of whether she was found on her side, like Stride, or on her back like Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes, and I wonder whether someone altered her position after the discovery of her body.
It was thought that her attacker was interrupted.
IMO there is an over emphasis on time gaps, as they are evident in the careers of other serial killers.

For Ellen Bury:
There was no knife attack to the throat. This is a vital signature of all the ripper murders, and those of Deeming.
IMO, the abdominal cuts were out of place in a domestic wife slaying. Deeming cut the throats of his both wives and most of his children, but did not resort to mutilation. On the night of the double event another woman, Sarah Brown, was murdered by her husband. Shortly before midnight John Brown walked into Rochester Row police station and handed the Inspector a clasp knife with blood on it. Sarah Brown was found with her throat cut, but no other injuries. I think that the abdominal injuries visited upon Ellen, and the chalk graffiti, were his attempts to draw attention to himself, to create the suggestion that he may have been the ripper, but with out the admission - all in the quest for notoriety and self importance. JMO.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

Maybe Bury was lying about being too squeamish to continue. I'll grant that calmly giving himself up isn't what I would expect JtR to do.

Hi Lewis C,

If he was Jack, I agree he was lying. If he wasn't Jack, the strangulation had achieved his purpose of ridding himself of a wife whose financial usefulness had expired. The only reason I can think of in such circumstances is that he was pursuing a fantasy of being seen as someone of importance.

Cheers, George

[John Wheat]

Hi John,

There are many sources, which contain contradictions, particularly from the press, as usual, but my understanding is that Parr stated that Bury did not confess to being the ripper.

I fully agree that there is a profound difference between the street attacks and a domestic murder. The former presents no obligation to conceal the crime, quite the opposite in fact, but the later is obliged to either conceal the crime or suffer the consequences. Bury's murder of Ellen seems pre-meditated, as the method of concealment, the crate, and the rope was in place before the murder. Deeming also planned his domestic murders in advance, but carried through with the concealments and continued to endeavour to escape justice. Bury made the preparations but then chose to abandon his plan and, four days later, present the police with what seems to me to be a totally bizarre story, and this is a big part of why I think he was a wife murderer, but not a serial killer. However, I will concede the possibility of his involvement in the Rose Mylett murder (only), that possibly being the reason for his departure from London.

As for Alice McKenzie:
She had two cuts to the vital areas of her neck.
She had abdominal cuts.
She was found with her dress hiked up and her legs and lower abdomen exposed.
There are conflicting reports of whether she was found on her side, like Stride, or on her back like Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes, and I wonder whether someone altered her position after the discovery of her body.
It was thought that her attacker was interrupted.
IMO there is an over emphasis on time gaps, as they are evident in the careers of other serial killers.

For Ellen Bury:
There was no knife attack to the throat. This is a vital signature of all the ripper murders, and those of Deeming.
IMO, the abdominal cuts were out of place in a domestic wife slaying. Deeming cut the throats of his both wives and most of his children, but did not resort to mutilation. On the night of the double event another woman, Sarah Brown, was murdered by her husband. Shortly before midnight John Brown walked into Rochester Row police station and handed the Inspector a clasp knife with blood on it. Sarah Brown was found with her throat cut, but no other injuries. I think that the abdominal injuries visited upon Ellen, and the chalk graffiti, were his attempts to draw attention to himself, to create the suggestion that he may have been the ripper, but with out the admission - all in the quest for notoriety and self importance. JMO.

Cheers, George

Hi George

I don't agree with what you are saying. We will have to agree to disagree. Although if Bury wasn't the Ripper who was? I still think Bury is like Sutcliffe was until he was finally caught. Eg dismissed as a serial killer despite being the best suspect.

[The Baron]

if Bury wasn't the Ripper who was?

Luckily we have an answer to this question!

Alice Mckenzie's Killer!


The Baron

[The Baron]

And John, don't tell me there was a time gap, there wasn't.

The Ripper didn't sign a contract with Whitechapel community and ripperologists to produce a Killing every month.


The Baron

[John Wheat]

Luckily we have an answer to this question!

Alice Mckenzie's Killer!


The Baron

There is a time gap and in all likelihood Alice McKenzie was not a Ripper victim.

[The Baron]

There is a time gap and in all likelihood Alice McKenzie was not a Ripper victim.

OK John, so here it is for you, there is a time gap between Kelly's ans Ellen's murder too! 3 months John and no Killing, 3 months!!!! 3 months John


The Baron