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  • Bury's Hat


    Difficult to tell as straight on but looks like a hard felt hat/billycock? How does this compare to witness statements? Bury had means and apparently liked to change his attire, so probably owned more than one.

    Other points
    • Broad shoulders? Dundee press said he had a 'powerful chest' but hard to tell from a still like this
    • Looks very normal, but the hangman Berry said that Bury 'repelled me'
    • Moustache and beard - apparently a photo portrait take during bury's 'suspiciously timed' holiday in August 1888 shows him with a moustache/no beard. One theory is after the botch on Farmer and widely circulated description of her attacker, he tried to change his appearance.
    I think the image came from the Dundee Courier coverage. Found on a website - couldn't see any info about copyright so I think ok to post (but admins delete if a problem, thanks).

    On second thoughts deleted the image - is here and better res, just scroll along: https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scott...81539406886345
    Last edited by Aethelwulf; 02-01-2022, 01:00 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    Difficult to tell as straight on but looks like a hard felt hat/billycock? How does this compare to witness statements? Bury had means and apparently liked to change his attire, so probably owned more than one.

    Other points
    • Broad shoulders? Dundee press said he had a 'powerful chest' but hard to tell from a still like this
    • Looks very normal, but the hangman Berry said that Bury 'repelled me'
    • Moustache and beard - apparently a photo portrait take during bury's 'suspiciously timed' holiday in August 1888 shows him with a moustache/no beard. One theory is after the botch on Farmer and widely circulated description of her attacker, he tried to change his appearance.
    I think the image came from the Dundee Courier coverage. Found on a website - couldn't see any info about copyright so I think ok to post (but admins delete if a problem, thanks).

    On second thoughts deleted the image - is here and better res, just scroll along: https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scott...81539406886345
    I read somewhere that Bury had powerfully built arms and shoulders. I'm sure it was either in Euan McPherson's book or Bill Beadle's book.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

      I read somewhere that Bury had powerfully built arms and shoulders. I'm sure it was either in Euan McPherson's book or Bill Beadle's book.
      which book is better?
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

        which book is better?
        IIRC both are pretty good.

        I'd likely vote McPherson Abby, but that could be because I've read it more recently.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
          Difficult to tell as straight on but looks like a hard felt hat/billycock?
          Sorry; but what hat are you talking about??

          M.
          (Image of Charles Allen Lechmere is by artist Ashton Guilbeaux. Used by permission. Original art-work for sale.)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

            which book is better?
            I rate them both highly. MacPherson's book is more fact driven but Beadle's book is more analytical. I would recommend reading both if you're looking for more information on Bury.

            Comment


            • #7
              Come on, the original message isn't that hard to understand is it - read the bit in bold. I copied an image I found online (probably from the Dundee Courier) but decided it might be infringing copyright, so i deleted it and pasted the link (that's the bit in red). The website is a bit odd in that you scroll left to right, not up/down, but go a few swipes along and you'll see the image i'm talking about.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
                Come on, the original message isn't that hard to understand is it - read the bit in bold. I copied an image I found online (probably from the Dundee Courier) but decided it might be infringing copyright, so i deleted it and pasted the link (that's the bit in red). The website is a bit odd in that you scroll left to right, not up/down, but go a few swipes along and you'll see the image i'm talking about.
                You mean the drawing? Sorry; I thought that was so insignificant that I reckoned you must have meant the photo -- which to me has hats mostly looking dead wrong for 1889, and doesn't show Bury with one...

                I misunderstood you. Sorry.

                M.
                Last edited by Mark J D; 02-01-2022, 06:39 PM.
                (Image of Charles Allen Lechmere is by artist Ashton Guilbeaux. Used by permission. Original art-work for sale.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                  You mean the drawing? Sorry; I thought that was so insignificant that I reckoned you must have meant the photo -- which to me has hats mostly looking dead wrong for 1889, and doesn't show Bury with one...

                  I misunderstood you. Sorry.

                  M.
                  I'm not sure the photo has anything to do with Bury. Might just be a general photo to illustrate a typical execution scene. As you say, the hats look several decades to late for the 1880s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
                    I'm not sure the photo has anything to do with Bury. Might just be a general photo to illustrate a typical execution scene. As you say, the hats look several decades to late for the 1880s
                    Looks like a stage set to me. Has anyone ever made a movie about Bury??

                    M.
                    (Image of Charles Allen Lechmere is by artist Ashton Guilbeaux. Used by permission. Original art-work for sale.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                      Looks like a stage set to me. Has anyone ever made a movie about Bury??

                      M.
                      Not to my knowledge.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The clothing is much later than Victorian period. It looks 1920s / 30s. also Bury is supposedly being walked to the gantry by a priest according to the caption. Which means he has no hat and we can only see the back of his head.

                        I don't think the photo is genuine anyway.
                        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                        JayHartley.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                          The clothing is much later than Victorian period. It looks 1920s / 30s. also Bury is supposedly being walked to the gantry by a priest according to the caption. Which means he has no hat and we can only see the back of his head.

                          I don't think the photo is genuine anyway.
                          Yes the photo is not genuine. I'm pretty sure there are no photos of Bury that remain.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                            The clothing is much later than Victorian period. It looks 1920s / 30s. also Bury is supposedly being walked to the gantry by a priest according to the caption. Which means he has no hat and we can only see the back of his head.

                            I don't think the photo is genuine anyway.
                            Another question - several of the witnesses said the man they saw had a 'Jewish' appearance or looked Jewish. It was stated in the press that Bury had a Jewish look from side on. Looking at the pencil sketch of Bury (you can zoom in on it), what were they (press and witnesses) talking about? What does a Jewish look actually mean - short of wearing traditional dress, I don't know how they could arrived at these statements, other than a general racist outlook.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
                              I don't know how they could arrived at these statements, other than a general racist outlook.
                              You have answered your own question. My guess they are referencing a racist caricature of what a Jewish person supposedly looked like.

                              The Fagin character from the 60s Oliver Twist film springs to mind.
                              Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                              JayHartley.com

                              Comment

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