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William Bury: Jack the Ripper

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  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Lewis C View Post

    Can you tell me more about him being described as intelligent?
    Sorry missed that bit off the earlier reply. Oddly, the reverand of the main church in Dundee was someone Bury knew from childhood - Edward Gough. Apparently Bury approached him and he visited him and ellen in their flat. Bury asked him to look for work on his behalf. There is a story, the source of which I can't find, that when they were children Bury stabbed Gough in the leg in an argument over money. It was Gough who Bury addressed his confession letter for his wife's murder and Gough who said he was very intelligent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Lewis C View Post

    Hi Wulf,

    I agree that Bury is one of the least weak suspects, to use Abby's phrase, and maybe THE least weak.

    I disagree about ‘least weak’. I think that is term for the likes of say Koz with the ID but nothing else that we know of, or other murderers but they aren’t as comparable in what they did – Chapman and Kelly. The mutilations bury carried out, the method of killing, the strong police interest and opinion amongst some he was the ripper puts him in the good/very good bracket IMO, as Rookie has concluded.

    Some questions about the part of your post that I quoted here:

    How well is it documented that Bury was away from his lodgings on the nights of the murder and that he behaved suspiciously on those nights/mornings?

    The references to Bury’s whereabouts are from the journalist Norman Hastings who dealt with police that worked on the Bury case. So second hand info as the actual file on Bury no longer exists, but his work gives a valuable insight into the months of investigation on Bury. Despite what Hastings found out he seems to have preferred the idea that the ripper was someone who came and went by boat. The references to his whereabouts:
    • Scotland Yard knew where Bury was staying on the night of the Chapman murder, and “established where he had been staying on the nights of three other of the Whitechapel murders, and from the recollection of those who lived nearby, it was quite possible that he had the opportunity to commit them”.
    • The home of Bury in the East End at the time of the Hanbury Street murder was traced, and again it was ascertained that on that night Bury had kept away from his home, and his manner on his return home the next afternoon suggested a madman”.
    • Scotland Yard “had established the fact that he was missing from his lodgings on the night that Marie Kelly was done to death in her home in Dorset Street” - “his description was very like that of the man who had been speaking to the young woman Kelly on the night of the crime”
    • Scotland Yard learned that “on one occasion when he was definitely known to be staying in the East End at the time of a Ripper crime, he (Bury) had absented himself from the house for that night in the most suspicious manner”.
    Steve Earp has written this stuff and the conclusion seems to be that the police knew where Bury was staying on the nights of Chapman, Stride/Eddowes and Kelly. It seems like they couldn’t trace his lodgings prior to Chapman.
    • Hastings wrote that “No one knew where he stayed in the East End prior to going to his new landlord’s home” (this is a reference to Spanby Road, where he moved on 11th August 1888).
    It also seems like Bury had some other addresses other than his permanent one and police couldn’t find some of them.
    • "Scotland Yard learned that after returning to London following his August 1888 trip to Wolverhampton, Bury “had apparently constantly changed his address and although the police were able to trace several of these, there were important gaps in his history which they were never able to fill.”

    What was the nature of this suspicious behavior?

    It's not clear. There is the 'behaving like a mad man', which just sounds like probably beating Ellen at a guess, shouting/raving who knows. I'd really like to know what the ''absented himself from the house for that night in the most suspicious manner”. means. It seems likely this was the double event night and I had pondered if it was a reference to Batty Street.

    Is the man talking to Kelly that you're referring to Mr. Blotchy?

    I think most likely the Kelly ref is Aman not blotchy. Bury had some very Aman like clothing in his room in Dundee and wore jewellery to the point that his neighbours remarked on it

    Can you tell me more about him being described as cunning and intelligent? Who described him that way, and did they explain what made them think that about him?

    At Bury's trial Ellen's sister mentioned it:

    At times Prisoner was bad-tempered—at others not. He was always pleasant to me. She (his wife) told me he was violent. She said he was cunning and concealed his temper before people.

    Hi LC, see above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lewis C
    replied
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    In terms of who was the more likely ripper victim, we don’t know who killed McK and they might not have even been in Whitechapel for the C5. But Bury, who has done these more ripper like things, is not only in the east end but appears to have been away from his lodgings on the nights in question. The police thought he had the opportunity to commit the crimes and behaved very suspiciously on nights/mornings on some of the murder days. The police also thought he looked like the man talking to Kelly and also look like the man seen after two other murders. He does fit many of the characteristics mentioned by the witnesses. Opinion amongst some of the police was that Bury was the ripper, and two detectives from SY were sent to his execution. So although McK was killed in Whitechapel, Bury who did more ripper like things was in whitechapel at the time and I think is more likely to have been the ripper than the man that killed McK.

    So there I think is the most likely answer to who the ripper was. Bury clearly trumps all other suspects, very easily. A man described as cunning, who was also brutal and cruel, and also described as very intelligent. Does a one time only wife murderer do what Bury did? Most of the injuries to her body were done at the point of death, or close to. The two groin stabs were done some time after when the body had lost its vital elasticity, He basically went back for another go at some point. That is pure evil.
    Hi Wulf,

    I agree that Bury is one of the least weak suspects, to use Abby's phrase, and maybe THE least weak. Some questions about the part of your post that I quoted here:

    How well is it documented that Bury was away from his lodgings on the nights of the murder and that he behaved suspiciously on those nights/mornings?

    What was the nature of this suspicious behavior?

    Is the man talking to Kelly that you're referring to Mr. Blotchy?

    Can you tell me more about him being described as cunning and intelligent? Who described him that way, and did they explain what made them think that about him?

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

    Hi Abby, if i was to speculate I'd say no. There is no evidence of this in the testimony of the Dundee police. It seems he gave a clear account of what happened (all lies) and then spent his time in prison listening to services from the Rev Gough, writing some sort of memoir and reading various religious books.

    I have two ideas. First Martin said that Bury's drinking got worse after his marriage, he told someone marriage was a bother, and Bury had to take Ellen to the bank to get her to cash in her shares and allow him lifestyle he wanted. Apparently Ellen threated to lock bury in to stop him getting at her money. I suspect his marriage to ellen was a great source of frustrtion and anger - perhaps he just gave up when she was gone.

    Second, i suspect a lot these serial killers have a massive sense of their own abilities and importance and trying to be in control is part of what they do. Bury spends days living with the body, listed to some court cases and clearly concluded that he could get away with and fool the police. What is sus I think is that Bury and Ellen turn up on the scottish coast in the middle of winter, he does something ripper like but a big step down, and yet the first thing he blurts out is that he is worried about being apprehended as jack the ripper. Like that table I did, he knew how it looked, the comparisons would be made, I think he was trying a bluff.

    Another point, didn't some serial killer do something similar? Finish by killing their relatives then walked into a police station and confessed.

    Overll, I think it's importsnt to separate fact from opinion. The facts are you can do a copy and paste of the various medical reports and see the similarities, it's there in black and white. The opinion is that the ripper wouldn't have done this or that and he would have done x,yz. On the injuries, bury is the most likely ripper. You add in the the other circumstantial stuff and I think it's very likely he was the ripper. Bury going in with the suicide story was lame, but that doesn't counter what he actually did in any way.

    Hey, serial killers to weird things!
    yes. yes they do. it was kemper who after he killed his mom and her friend called police and turned himself in. the reason he gave was something along the lines as it was getting out of hand/burnout/ he couldnt go on etc.

    maybe similar to bury and his wife.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

    great post wulf! but let me ask you this. bury going to the police with the lame suicide story sounds very unripper like to me. do you think he may have been unraveling mentally at this point?
    Hi Abby, if i was to speculate I'd say no. There is no evidence of this in the testimony of the Dundee police. It seems he gave a clear account of what happened (all lies) and then spent his time in prison listening to services from the Rev Gough, writing some sort of memoir and reading various religious books.

    I have two ideas. First Martin said that Bury's drinking got worse after his marriage, he told someone marriage was a bother, and Bury had to take Ellen to the bank to get her to cash in her shares and allow him lifestyle he wanted. Apparently Ellen threated to lock bury in to stop him getting at her money. I suspect his marriage to ellen was a great source of frustrtion and anger - perhaps he just gave up when she was gone.

    Second, i suspect a lot these serial killers have a massive sense of their own abilities and importance and trying to be in control is part of what they do. Bury spends days living with the body, listed to some court cases and clearly concluded that he could get away with and fool the police. What is sus I think is that Bury and Ellen turn up on the scottish coast in the middle of winter, he does something ripper like but a big step down, and yet the first thing he blurts out is that he is worried about being apprehended as jack the ripper. Like that table I did, he knew how it looked, the comparisons would be made, I think he was trying a bluff.

    Another point, didn't some serial killer do something similar? Finish by killing their relatives then walked into a police station and confessed.

    Overll, I think it's importsnt to separate fact from opinion. The facts are you can do a copy and paste of the various medical reports and see the similarities, it's there in black and white. The opinion is that the ripper wouldn't have done this or that and he would have done x,yz. On the injuries, bury is the most likely ripper. You add in the the other circumstantial stuff and I think it's very likely he was the ripper. Bury going in with the suicide story was lame, but that doesn't counter what he actually did in any way.

    Hey, serial killers to weird things!

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

    Hi Rook,

    Based on the injuries inflicted there is in fact another murder of closer comparison to a ripper. I have put a table below (bottom of the post) to show how the two compare. I will point out some similarities you may find of interest.

    JtR was a lust murderer, and his focus was the lower abdomen and genitals. Those more severe injuries are missing from McKenzie, but you can see the same thought process operating on poor Ellen Bury’s body

    Eddowes
    • The incision went down the right side of the vagina and rectum for half an inch behind the rectum.
    You can see that Bury did something very similar, targeting the same areas
    • On the inner side of the right labium was a wound 2 inches in length, penetrating the skin. Beginning about an inch behind the anus was an incised wound running forwards and to the left, into the perinaeum, and dividing the sphincter muscle.
    I would also draw your attention to this injury on Ellen Bury:
    • There were other two cuts on the abdomen—one two inches to the inner side of the right anterior superior iliac spine, and the other at an almost corresponding level on the opposite side
    Two inches in from anterior superior iliac spine is basically in the groin, one cut in each groin. We see something similar on Eddowes:
    • There was a stab of about an inch on the left groin
    • An inch below the crease of the thigh was a cut extending from the anterior spine of the ilium obliquely
    You also have the attempt at two main wounds, the longer 7 inch cut and the lower cut into the abdomen. There is an essay somewhere about Nicholls having two main cuts. The marks on McK are basically scratches, and Phillips though they were made with finger nails. Bury's cuts are superficial but he did cut further into the muscles on several cuts and through to the abdoment on one.

    There is also reference to a small 3 inch cut on Tabram although I’m not sure anyone knows the exact location, but I have seen the groin area mentioned. So although we think about the big cuts with the ripper, he also made smaller cuts and stabs, like Bury.

    The consensus is that the ripper was a strangler. I will also draw your attention to how bury did this (see table below) – with a cord, all the way around the neck apart from a small gap of two inches on the left side of the neck. Now, I find it very suspicious that Rose Mylett was strangled with a cord passing all the way around her neck save for 2-3 inches on the left side of the neck. Bury was living 1 mile away from poplar high street at the time.

    I will also point out Bury's burning of his wife's clothes, like Kelly, and the time of the murder and how it sounded to a witness (see notes below), again, very simialr to kelly, who was found in only her chemise, like ellen Bury:
    • David Duncan – About three o’clock in the morning of Tuesday 5th February I had occasion to get out of bed.
    • Lord Young – And while you were up did anything occur outside that attracted your attention?
    • David Duncan – Yes. I heard a woman scream three times in distress – desperate. I wakended Ann Johnston, calling her twice, and asked her if she had heard the screams, but she said "No".
    • Lord Young – Did the screaming stop?
    • David Duncan – At once.
    • Lord Young – Did you listen carefully for anymore screams?
    • David Duncan – Yes. I listened for an hour or more.
    • Lord Young – No more screams were heard?
    • David Duncan – No.
    Obviously, we need to explain the de-escalation in both cases. For McKenzie, it is just guessing. For Bury we do have some points to consider: the victim was his wife who he’d known for a year; different location. Also, and I think most important, for the C5 the ripper had to ensure he came and went unrecognised, and he was in the clear. That is not the case here as Bury would have been the only suspect. I think that is what held him back.

    In terms of who was the more likely ripper victim, we don’t know who killed McK and they might not have even been in Whitechapel for the C5. But Bury, who has done these more ripper like things, is not only in the east end but appears to have been away from his lodgings on the nights in question. The police thought he had the opportunity to commit the crimes and behaved very suspiciously on nights/mornings on some of the murder days. The police also thought he looked like the man talking to Kelly and also look like the man seen after two other murders. He does fit many of the characteristics mentioned by the witnesses. Opinion amongst some of the police was that Bury was the ripper, and two detectives from SY were sent to his execution. So although McK was killed in Whitechapel, Bury who did more ripper like things was in whitechapel at the time and I think is more likely to have been the ripper than the man that killed McK.

    So there I think is the most likely answer to who the ripper was. Bury clearly trumps all other suspects, very easily. A man described as cunning, who was also brutal and cruel, and also described as very intelligent. Does a one time only wife murderer do what Bury did? Most of the injuries to her body were done at the point of death, or close to. The two groin stabs were done some time after when the body had lost its vital elasticity, He basically went back for another go at some point. That is pure evil.
    McKenzie
    Ellen Bury
    Face Over the bridge of the nose was a small incised wound penetrating the skin only, half an inch in length, running obliquely downwards from right to left
    Neck The wound in the neck was 4 in. long, reaching from the back part of the muscles, which were almost entirely divided. It reached to the fore part of the neck to a point 4 in. below the chin. There was a second incision, which must have commenced from behind and immediately below the first

    The whole of the air passages were uninjured
    There was a mark of constriction around the neck, passing in front between the hyoid bone and the larynx, and maintaining this level all the way round with the exception of about two inches on the left side of the neck where it tended slightly upwards.

    About three-quarters of an inch above this line, below the angle of the left lower jaw, were two small bruises each half an inch in length.
    Abdomen A long (seven-inch) 'but not unduly deep' wound from the bottom of the left breast to the navel

    Seven or eight scratches beginning at the navel and pointing toward the genitalia
    There was an incised wound in the centre of the abdomen, extending downwards from the umbilicus for four and a half inches. It penetrated the abdominal cavity, and through it protruded part of the omentum, and about a foot of intestine, part of which was dry and black from exposure to the air. This cut was ragged towards the lower part.

    Commencing at the inner end of the fifth right costal cartilage, was a cut running downwards and to the left for seven and a half inches. This was quite superficial, with the exception of the last inch, where it penetrated through the skin into the muscular layer of the abdomen

    Half an inch to the right of this, and running parallel to it, was a similar cut, five inches in length and superficial throughout.

    Two inches to the right of, and commencing on a level with the umbilicus was an incised wound, three quarters of an inch in length and penetrating through to the muscular layer.

    From the lower end of the wound opening into the abdomen, on the left side were several superficial cuts little more than penetrating the cuticle, and running downwards to the pubis.

    There were other two cuts on the abdomen—one two inches to the inner side of the right anterior superior iliac spine, and the other at an almost corresponding level on the opposite side. They were each about half an inch in length, running downwards and inwards and penetrating to the muscular layer. These were free from any trace of haemorhage’
    Genitals Small cut across the mons veneris.
    On the inner side of the right labium was a wound 2 inches in length, penetrating the skin.

    Running downwards from the centre of the pubis to the outer side of the left labium was an incised wound 2 inches in length, penetrating the skin and fat

    Beginning about an inch behind the anus was an incised wound running forwards and to the left, into the perinaeum, and dividing the sphincter muscle.
    great post wulf! but let me ask you this. bury going to the police with the lame suicide story sounds very unripper like to me. do you think he may have been unraveling mentally at this point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
    Absolutely fascinating post and very detailed indeed. I agree that he is a very likely suspect based on some of the key elements of the murders.

    The only question I would ask is this...

    Is Bury the kind of man who would be a 'Copycat' killer?

    It's clear that his methods bare a striking resemblance to some of the wounds inflicted on the victims.

    He is almost too good to be true in terms of the Pros VS Cons, as there would appear a lot to suggest he was the killer.

    I know very little about Bury but your post has certainly got my attention in that I'd fail to see how anyone wouldn't have Bury in their Top 5 suspects.

    Very intriguing and I am going to research Bury and try and build that picture.

    He is a good, a VERY good candidate for JTR

    Thank you for your brilliant post


    RD
    Hi RD
    Bury has always been in my top five but the more i learn about him he is in my top two. Hes probably about as close to the ripper in terms of evidence and chcking boxes as we will get. and if anything ties him to any of the victims (other than similar wounds of course) it would probably be game over for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
    Absolutely fascinating post and very detailed indeed. I agree that he is a very likely suspect based on some of the key elements of the murders.

    Is Bury the kind of man who would be a 'Copycat' killer?

    I think the key here is 'copy'. What did everyone think JtR's calling card was - a cut throat. What is the first thing a copycat would do - cut the throat. As I understand it serial killers can vary their methods of actual murder which are often a means to an end. I think that is the case with JtR. Silence them quickly to get to the main event. With McK the throat cut has been done but the main event is entirely missing. Bury dispatches his wife in an amazingly similar way to Mylet and then makes a far more clear attempt at the signature mutilations. Some of those similarities are so specific and so perverse, I struggle with it being a coincidence, especially when taken in combination with the method of strangling a similarity to Mylett. You add in the time of death, burnt clothing, even the cheeky school boys make an appearance in the back yard with their chalk messages...


    He is almost too good to be true in terms of the Pros VS Cons, as there would appear a lot to suggest he was the killer.

    I think that is the issue for a lot of people.

    I know very little about Bury but your post has certainly got my attention in that I'd fail to see how anyone wouldn't have Bury in their Top 5 suspects.

    IMO, Bury is the bar that all other suspects need to cross to be taken seriously, and they are all miles off. Show me another suspect who has what we are looking for in terms of matching mutilations to the other victims.

    Very intriguing and I am going to research Bury and try and build that picture.

    I would suggest you make a call a Steve Earp's Bury ID page. He does a fr better job than me of this. He's had problems with his website and I notice some of the links don't work. Te main ID is here: http://williambury.org/blog6/?page_id=9

    He is a good, a VERY good candidate for JTR

    Thank you for your brilliant post

    It is what it is. Can't be proven short of a shoe box turning up with his knives from dundee. His DNA is on file though froma piece of his vertebrae, should anything ever crop up. It is a solid circimstantial case. After all we are looking for a sexually motivated murderer and mutilator. An here he is. I'm not too fussed TBH as I'm settled that Bury is as close as we can get to the truth.
    RD
    See my points above. a couple I forgot in the original post. First, and I know people will start shrieking like headless chickens about this, but a profile was put together for the ripper by the FBI. What do you know - that profile may as well have Bury's name on it the match is so close.

    Second, I see you like the handwriting and letters angle. Bury was a former clerk and it was said at his trial he could write in different hands. Although there is the cursive issue, there are some clear similarities with Bury's handwriting and some of the ripper letters. A contemporary account states that the police studied his handwriting and thought it a match.

    Finally, we need someone that knew prostitues. James Martin said Ellen Bury was a prostitute, Bury met her in his brothel and got wind of the large sum of manoy to be had on her marriage. Bury also caught an STD after his marriage and gave it to his wife. Where did he get that, probably another prostitue. It is also suggested Ada wilson was a prostitue. Bury fits the description of that man and basically lived around the corner from her (see post 196). The weapon used is his sort - clasp knife/penknife as per tabram (Ellen founf he slept with a penknife under his pillow). Bottom line - Bury is suspicious as hell.

    More generally, McK looks like a one off to me. You have this long break, big deescalation without any known mitigating factors and then nothing. If a week later a body turned up in a yard with mutilations and organs missing, then McK would look different, but that didn't happen. I will sya that is because McK was the copy and ripper was already dead in Dundee.
    Last edited by Aethelwulf; 08-07-2023, 07:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rookie Detective
    replied
    Absolutely fascinating post and very detailed indeed. I agree that he is a very likely suspect based on some of the key elements of the murders.

    The only question I would ask is this...

    Is Bury the kind of man who would be a 'Copycat' killer?

    It's clear that his methods bare a striking resemblance to some of the wounds inflicted on the victims.

    He is almost too good to be true in terms of the Pros VS Cons, as there would appear a lot to suggest he was the killer.

    I know very little about Bury but your post has certainly got my attention in that I'd fail to see how anyone wouldn't have Bury in their Top 5 suspects.

    Very intriguing and I am going to research Bury and try and build that picture.

    He is a good, a VERY good candidate for JTR

    Thank you for your brilliant post


    RD

    Leave a comment:


  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
    Not forgetting that with McKenzie, the killer appears to have gone full circle as McKenzie's murder is more similar to Nichols than any other.

    Hi Rook,

    Based on the injuries inflicted there is in fact another murder of closer comparison to a ripper. I have put a table below (bottom of the post) to show how the two compare. I will point out some similarities you may find of interest.

    JtR was a lust murderer, and his focus was the lower abdomen and genitals. Those more severe injuries are missing from McKenzie, but you can see the same thought process operating on poor Ellen Bury’s body

    Eddowes
    • The incision went down the right side of the vagina and rectum for half an inch behind the rectum.
    You can see that Bury did something very similar, targeting the same areas
    • On the inner side of the right labium was a wound 2 inches in length, penetrating the skin. Beginning about an inch behind the anus was an incised wound running forwards and to the left, into the perinaeum, and dividing the sphincter muscle.
    I would also draw your attention to this injury on Ellen Bury:
    • There were other two cuts on the abdomen—one two inches to the inner side of the right anterior superior iliac spine, and the other at an almost corresponding level on the opposite side
    Two inches in from anterior superior iliac spine is basically in the groin, one cut in each groin. We see something similar on Eddowes:
    • There was a stab of about an inch on the left groin
    • An inch below the crease of the thigh was a cut extending from the anterior spine of the ilium obliquely
    You also have the attempt at two main wounds, the longer 7 inch cut and the lower cut into the abdomen. There is an essay somewhere about Nicholls having two main cuts. The marks on McK are basically scratches, and Phillips though they were made with finger nails. Bury's cuts are superficial but he did cut further into the muscles on several cuts and through to the abdoment on one.

    There is also reference to a small 3 inch cut on Tabram although I’m not sure anyone knows the exact location, but I have seen the groin area mentioned. So although we think about the big cuts with the ripper, he also made smaller cuts and stabs, like Bury.

    The consensus is that the ripper was a strangler. I will also draw your attention to how bury did this (see table below) – with a cord, all the way around the neck apart from a small gap of two inches on the left side of the neck. Now, I find it very suspicious that Rose Mylett was strangled with a cord passing all the way around her neck save for 2-3 inches on the left side of the neck. Bury was living 1 mile away from poplar high street at the time.

    I will also point out Bury's burning of his wife's clothes, like Kelly, and the time of the murder and how it sounded to a witness (see notes below), again, very simialr to kelly, who was found in only her chemise, like ellen Bury:
    • David Duncan – About three o’clock in the morning of Tuesday 5th February I had occasion to get out of bed.
    • Lord Young – And while you were up did anything occur outside that attracted your attention?
    • David Duncan – Yes. I heard a woman scream three times in distress – desperate. I wakended Ann Johnston, calling her twice, and asked her if she had heard the screams, but she said "No".
    • Lord Young – Did the screaming stop?
    • David Duncan – At once.
    • Lord Young – Did you listen carefully for anymore screams?
    • David Duncan – Yes. I listened for an hour or more.
    • Lord Young – No more screams were heard?
    • David Duncan – No.
    Obviously, we need to explain the de-escalation in both cases. For McKenzie, it is just guessing. For Bury we do have some points to consider: the victim was his wife who he’d known for a year; different location. Also, and I think most important, for the C5 the ripper had to ensure he came and went unrecognised, and he was in the clear. That is not the case here as Bury would have been the only suspect. I think that is what held him back.

    In terms of who was the more likely ripper victim, we don’t know who killed McK and they might not have even been in Whitechapel for the C5. But Bury, who has done these more ripper like things, is not only in the east end but appears to have been away from his lodgings on the nights in question. The police thought he had the opportunity to commit the crimes and behaved very suspiciously on nights/mornings on some of the murder days. The police also thought he looked like the man talking to Kelly and also look like the man seen after two other murders. He does fit many of the characteristics mentioned by the witnesses. Opinion amongst some of the police was that Bury was the ripper, and two detectives from SY were sent to his execution. So although McK was killed in Whitechapel, Bury who did more ripper like things was in whitechapel at the time and I think is more likely to have been the ripper than the man that killed McK.

    So there I think is the most likely answer to who the ripper was. Bury clearly trumps all other suspects, very easily. A man described as cunning, who was also brutal and cruel, and also described as very intelligent. Does a one time only wife murderer do what Bury did? Most of the injuries to her body were done at the point of death, or close to. The two groin stabs were done some time after when the body had lost its vital elasticity, He basically went back for another go at some point. That is pure evil.
    McKenzie
    Ellen Bury
    Face Over the bridge of the nose was a small incised wound penetrating the skin only, half an inch in length, running obliquely downwards from right to left
    Neck The wound in the neck was 4 in. long, reaching from the back part of the muscles, which were almost entirely divided. It reached to the fore part of the neck to a point 4 in. below the chin. There was a second incision, which must have commenced from behind and immediately below the first

    The whole of the air passages were uninjured
    There was a mark of constriction around the neck, passing in front between the hyoid bone and the larynx, and maintaining this level all the way round with the exception of about two inches on the left side of the neck where it tended slightly upwards.

    About three-quarters of an inch above this line, below the angle of the left lower jaw, were two small bruises each half an inch in length.
    Abdomen A long (seven-inch) 'but not unduly deep' wound from the bottom of the left breast to the navel

    Seven or eight scratches beginning at the navel and pointing toward the genitalia
    There was an incised wound in the centre of the abdomen, extending downwards from the umbilicus for four and a half inches. It penetrated the abdominal cavity, and through it protruded part of the omentum, and about a foot of intestine, part of which was dry and black from exposure to the air. This cut was ragged towards the lower part.

    Commencing at the inner end of the fifth right costal cartilage, was a cut running downwards and to the left for seven and a half inches. This was quite superficial, with the exception of the last inch, where it penetrated through the skin into the muscular layer of the abdomen

    Half an inch to the right of this, and running parallel to it, was a similar cut, five inches in length and superficial throughout.

    Two inches to the right of, and commencing on a level with the umbilicus was an incised wound, three quarters of an inch in length and penetrating through to the muscular layer.

    From the lower end of the wound opening into the abdomen, on the left side were several superficial cuts little more than penetrating the cuticle, and running downwards to the pubis.

    There were other two cuts on the abdomen—one two inches to the inner side of the right anterior superior iliac spine, and the other at an almost corresponding level on the opposite side. They were each about half an inch in length, running downwards and inwards and penetrating to the muscular layer. These were free from any trace of haemorhage’
    Genitals Small cut across the mons veneris.
    On the inner side of the right labium was a wound 2 inches in length, penetrating the skin.

    Running downwards from the centre of the pubis to the outer side of the left labium was an incised wound 2 inches in length, penetrating the skin and fat

    Beginning about an inch behind the anus was an incised wound running forwards and to the left, into the perinaeum, and dividing the sphincter muscle.

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  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Obviously anybody could have had lots of farthings and a sovreign holder if that was part of a ruse to get the victims on side, but interesting all the same that Bury had:

    Lying on window sill:-
    A bag containing 68 farthings

    In large padlocked box:-
    a sovereign holder:

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  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

    Cheers John, there is an updated version below. I realised I misunderstood the reference to where Martin and Ellen lived. Ellen was living in Martin's establishment at 80 Quickett Street, which is off Arnold Road. The ref I found made it sound like two different places.

    I've added the other addresses in Blackthorn St and Swaton Rd. Swaton Rd is where they lodged with Elizabeth Haynes - where she found him kneeling on Ellen with a knife to her throat in an argument about money. That latter is intersting given his proximity to Wilson and his similarity to the description of her attacker, and of course that he actually murdered a woman. Haven't looked in detail yet for any confirmation of the story that Bury stabbed Edward Gough aged 10 to get money. Could well believe that is true though.


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    I had forgotten what was probably Bury's main reasion for wanting money in early 1888. He was sacked in March by Martin for not brining in enough money and he left owing about 17, which in today's money is just short of 1700. I believe this is the money Ellen tried to repay Martin in a pub in Whitechapel - Bury's repsonse was to turn and hit her in the face, charmer that he was.

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  • John Wheat
    replied
    Thanks for the updated Map Aethelwulf.

    Cheers John

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  • Aethelwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
    Thanks for the Map and info Aethelwulf.
    Cheers John, there is an updated version below. I realised I misunderstood the reference to where Martin and Ellen lived. Ellen was living in Martin's establishment at 80 Quickett Street, which is off Arnold Road. The ref I found made it sound like two different places.

    I've added the other addresses in Blackthorn St and Swaton Rd. Swaton Rd is where they lodged with Elizabeth Haynes - where she found him kneeling on Ellen with a knife to her throat in an argument about money. That latter is intersting given his proximity to Wilson and his similarity to the description of her attacker, and of course that he actually murdered a woman. Haven't looked in detail yet for any confirmation of the story that Bury stabbed Edward Gough aged 10 to get money. Could well believe that is true though.


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  • John Wheat
    replied
    Thanks for the Map and info Aethelwulf.

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