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  • Subterfuge

    I have just finished Beadle's JtR Unmasked, and was struck by something Ellen's sister said of Bury. He ' could write [in] several hands' p 228. Meaning of course, he was something of a forger.

    Perhaps he was also practiced in subterfuge.

    We have good descriptions of JrR from people who are unlikely to ever forget him. Ada Wilson, who saw him from 6 feet away demanding money in her home, he went on to knife her twice in the throat. Thankfully she survived.

    J. Best and John Gardner who were eyeballing him in The Bricklayers Arms , as he sweet talked with Liz Stride. They were trying to goad him into a fight, the way that cowards do, in drink. JtR thought the better of it, and decided to leave with Liz instead. He and they were probably feet apart, they way that belligerent men are.

    Ada Wilson says the man who tried to kill her had a fair moustache, while J Best and John Gardner inform us it was black. And these people had a marvellous view of the fiend.

    How curious.

    What then, are we so make of this, on page 131 his moustache is said to be black. At page 136 it’s brown. At page 144 and page 77 it is fair. While at page 184 it is carroty, meaning perhaps ginger.

    Is JtR altering his whiskers/hair colour prior to an assault, in case he finds a suitable victim, and hence, wrong foot any witnesses ? He knew he would not always stumble upon an isolated victim, as we see at the Bricklayers Arms.

    More subterfuge - we have discrepancy regarding his complexion too. We are told on p133, p124,p125 p134 and p 133 that it was dark. On p136, p144 and p77 that his complexion was fair. We are told by p184 that it was fresh, whatever that means. Is he using make up to alter his appearance ?

    And there’s more. He is described as 25 years of age on p133. On p136 it is 30. Then 36 at p184. By p132 he is middle aged. Is he using make up to age himself prior to an assault , whitening his hair at the temples perhaps ? Maybe walking with a slight stoop, to make age seem plausible?

    And here we read that his build was medium [Sugden p247]. Broad shouldered p136. Rather stout p132. Padding perhaps, or some other theatrical trickery ?

    And here we read his height was reported as 5’ 7-8” on page p144 and p133. 5’5” on p136 &p183. A little taller than the deceased who was 5’0” on p124 &p125. So he appears to have grown several inches in as many months.

    Perhaps he was a little self conscious about his height, and had made up shoes to add another 4-5”. Some short people do this, maybe JtR was one of them. This might of given the idea of disguise in the first place.

    I think JtR was only too aware that a good description of him would lead to the scaffold. And he likely did resorted to all the above. It would explain partially why he did not go home immediately after an attack. He needed time in the killing zone disguised as just another East Ender,to conceal his mania/raving, as we have read, and also time to deal with his theatrical accoutrements, he did not need Ellen asking awkward questions.

    This is for anyone from the Bury school. What do you think ?
    Last edited by Ashkenaz; 12-25-2012, 11:26 PM. Reason: edit
    It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

    The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

  • #2
    Wilson

    Hello Ashkenaz.

    Before proceeding too far with Ada Wilson, you might wish to have a go at Mark Ripper's article about her in "Rip" 125. Excellent piece.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
      Hello Ashkenaz.

      Before proceeding too far with Ada Wilson, you might wish to have a go at Mark Ripper's article about her in "Rip" 125. Excellent piece.

      Cheers.
      LC
      Thank you muchly Lynn. I had never heard of it ! Are they for sale ?

      It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

      The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

      Comment


      • #4
        back copies

        Hello Ashkenaz. Thanks.

        Yes, indeed. You'll want to chat up Chris George or Adam Wood for back copies.

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          And you'll sign my copy ?
          It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

          The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

          Comment


          • #6
            X marks the spot.

            Hello Ashkenaz. Thanks.

            Will an "X" do as well? (heh-heh)

            Cheers.
            LC

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh.. go on then, lol
              It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

              The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

              Comment


              • #8
                Ashkenaz, if Bury was the Ripper and he had his cart parked somewhere in the area, I would not be surprised if he changed his hat and possibly also his coat immediately following a murder. And I would not be surprised if he chose to wear a different outfit on his next killing expedition. I wouldn't be too concerned about the different height estimates, however. If you want to know how Bury could have been both 5'3" and 5'7", look no further than Levy and Lawende. They both looked at the same guy but provided different height estimates. At least one of them was off the mark, but we don't know which one. The thing to keep in mind with witness descriptions is that they're sometimes inaccurate.
                “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                http://www.williambury.org

                Comment


                • #9
                  Marcel Wave

                  The subterfuge regarding the full beard, built-up boots and moustache dyeing begins to take me back...

                  All the best

                  Dave

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well i think its fair to say he was a cunning little chap. It wouldnt be too hard to dress up in miltary attire and go out with your mate on the piss just for the crack. Once my mates and I actaully grew mustaches so we could make our mexican themed stag party costumes all that bit more authentic.

                    could have been both 5'3" and 5'7", look no further than Levy and Lawende
                    Spot on and here i would always side with the witness who was comparing with another person - ie. ''the supsect was a inch taller than the deceased''
                    These 5'7s reports dosent put me off, the hat adds another couple of inches.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Before proceeding too far with Ada Wilson, you might wish to have a go at Mark Ripper's article about her in "Rip" 125. Excellent piece
                      I have my reasons for being interested in Ada's candacy as an early ripper victim so let me know if it convinces you either way.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have always thought it highly possible that Ada was an early victim of JtR, Bury, due to the geography of the attack site and Bury's home.

                        I also pay more attention to someone's height being "an inch taller than the deceased" than a figure such as 5'3" or 5'7" or whatever.

                        These are just my opinions and may be wrong.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johns View Post
                          I have always thought it highly possible that Ada was an early victim of JtR, Bury, due to the geography of the attack site and Bury's home.

                          I also pay more attention to someone's height being "an inch taller than the deceased" than a figure such as 5'3" or 5'7" or whatever.

                          These are just my opinions and may be wrong.
                          I also think it likely that Ada was an early victim of JtR. There is a clue here. Why did Bury have a sun tanned face in March as Ada reported at the time ? The only thing I can see,is that he may of worked at the time in a foundary.

                          I don't think Bury had any history as a sailor, which might also explain the sun tanned in March.
                          It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

                          The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ashkenaz View Post
                            I also think it likely that Ada was an early victim of JtR. There is a clue here. Why did Bury have a sun tanned face in March as Ada reported at the time ? The only thing I can see, is that he may of worked at the time in a foundry.
                            Jack the Ripper Unmasked, Beadle.

                            Further to my last post . Ada Wilson describes her assailant as having a “sunburned face” Page 77, and on page 131, Jtr is described by Best and Gardener two labourers, with “sore eyes without any eyelashes”

                            There is only one way to lose eyelashes in March in Victorian London. You must work as a labourer in a foundry !

                            Bury had experience of working in foundries. On page 53 we are told that Bury worked at a foundry, and that in Stourbridge,JtR’s hometown, the local MP owned a iron foundry, which was one of the larger places of employment in the area.
                            Last edited by Ashkenaz; 01-07-2014, 10:07 AM.
                            It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

                            The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              B & G

                              Hello Ashkenaz.

                              "Jtr is described by Best and Gardener two labourers, with “sore eyes without any eyelashes”"

                              Wasn't aware that B & G had described JTR--just a bloke they claimed was with Liz.

                              Cheers.
                              LC

                              Comment

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