Bury - the cellar

[RockySullivan]

Just a bit more on this attempted rape from newspapers

Blackburn standard 4 March 1882

Could this be similar to the Emma Smith attack? I am also struck by the similarity between the Pinchin chalkings and the one at bury's residence. I just read about Bury today and the graffiti and was delighted to find the topic being discussed presently. Wonder if Bury could have a connection to John Arnold

[Wyatt Earp]

I havn't posted for an age and only dip in and out of the Casebook occasionally so apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

I notice that on both repros of the PSG the wording written is 'jack ripper' rather than the more common 'jack THE ripper'

How much should be read into that ? The 'Dear Boss' letter shows the 'THE'
and have I read that the hangman Berry claimed that Bury told him he was 'THE' ripper and not 'Jack ripper'

Is this at all relevent - I'm interested in the 'expert's' views....

It is sharp of you to notice that, swagman, however I don’t think that any conclusions can be drawn from the absence of this word in the two messages. It’s not good evidence that the messages were written by the same person, as “Jack Ripper” could have been a preferred phrase among a group of kids. Also, while James Berry apparently got the impression, after interacting with Bury, that Bury was the Ripper, there’s no evidence that Bury used the phrase “Jack the Ripper” in a confession to him.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, indeed a likely reason for the mistake - although the same mistake is made in both pieces of graffiti (I believe they were written by same person)
so perhaps not a mistake but a different take on the infamous killer's nickname by the individual(s) in question.

yes that's what I meant. mistake was a bad term. maybe that's what the ripper was called in those parts.

[swagman]

Yes, indeed a likely reason for the mistake - although the same mistake is made in both pieces of graffiti (I believe they were written by same person)
so perhaps not a mistake but a different take on the infamous killer's nickname by the individual(s) in question.

[Abby Normal]

I havn't posted for an age and only dip in and out of the Casebook occasionally so apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

I notice that on both repros of the PSG the wording written is 'jack ripper' rather than the more common 'jack THE ripper'

How much should be read into that ? The 'Dear Boss' letter shows the 'THE'
and have I read that the hangman Berry claimed that Bury told him he was 'THE' ripper and not 'Jack ripper'

Is this at all relevent - I'm interested in the 'expert's' views....

mistake by neighborhood kids, who knowing he came from London and was perhaps a little weird and or scary, wrote graffiti on his house.

[swagman]

Absence of 'THE' in PSG

I havn't posted for an age and only dip in and out of the Casebook occasionally so apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

I notice that on both repros of the PSG the wording written is 'jack ripper' rather than the more common 'jack THE ripper'

How much should be read into that ? The 'Dear Boss' letter shows the 'THE'
and have I read that the hangman Berry claimed that Bury told him he was 'THE' ripper and not 'Jack ripper'

Is this at all relevent - I'm interested in the 'expert's' views....

[GUT]

Pat

I don't know how typical that was, and after all these two fathers were rather well known in the area and it may just have been that it was taken as given that they were DEAD. One was known well by the King, so you can speculate that he was probably well known locally.

Again I don't know how common that was just that it can't be ruled out.

[Paddy]

G'day GUT
Well I learn something new every day. Thanks....

Pat................

[GUT]

G'Day Paddy

The ones I was referring to are for marriages in UK, Dorset to be exact and range from about 1860 - 1890 I think 6 or 8 from memory that refer to Father's occupation, after he was dead with no reference to deceased. For 2 different father's if that makes sense?

[Paddy]

Hi Gus The certificates usually put deceased after fathers name in uk. Well every one I have seen anyway? You are right though it does not state past or present so open to complication... Googled it and found this but still not clear

In 1837, the format of the marriage register changed and significantly more information is recorded. Such registers remain unchanged to the present day. The information recorded is :
• Registration District
• Place of Marriage
• Register entry number
• Names of Parties
• Age of Parties
• Status and Occupation
• Residence at time of marriage
• Father’s name & occupation - for both bride & groom and possibly
a statement that either was dead by that date
• Method of marriage - banns, licence, certificate etc
• Signature or mark of the couple and witnesses

I suppose some people just dont know if their father is dead or not, but Bury did....

Pat............................................... .......

[GUT]

G'Day Paddy

But that column only asks for rank or profession of father, I've seen certificates for members of my family that show "Clergyman" in that space up to 30 years after death.

[Paddy]

Bury's father

Sorry for non reply just seen your question John...

Bury's father died horribly in a horse and cart accident when Bury was a wee boy as far as we know. He was a fishmonger though.
Where did you find Bury saying his father was alive?

I was noting that on his wedding cert he did not show his father was dead

[Boggles]

Just a bit more on this attempted rape from newspapers

Blackburn standard 4 March 1882

[Boggles]

Paddy,
Thanks for this interesting snippet on the attempted rape.

I wonder if there might be some details mentioning this incident, (local newspapers and what-not) do you happen to have more info on this. Where, when and who was the victim? or perhapes tell me where to look meself?

[johns]

Bury was recorded in the 3 Censuses carried out in 1861, 71 and 81 and on each occasion his name was recorded as William Henry Berry.

I also think that on one occasion his birthplace was noted as Stourport rather than Stourbridge. A rather common error in these parts even now.