"...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..."

[John Wheat]

I agree with Boggles, Bury is a strong suspect. Who shouldn't be lumped in with the ridiculous candidates whom I suspect a number have been concocted by authors to make a quick buck. Still if there happy trading on murders then there you go.

John

[Boggles]

Droy,

better and more likley candidates

really? would you be kind enough to name one of them??

[GregBaron]

It boggles the mind...

Droy, really? would you be kind enough to name one of them??

I agree with you Boggles, I don't see more-likely candidates although there aren't really any good ones. Lack of evidence makes for poor candidates..

I expect the usual suspects of Chapman and Koz will be trotted as as superior. I don't agree...

I wish we had more corroboration of Bury's East End meanderings. We do know he was a sick psychopath which at least ticks one box. Of course Chapman was too but Koz ticks only the schizo box.

My favorite candidate of late is Jacob Levy. His lack of casebook respect only strengthens my suspicions...


Greg

[Abby Normal]

I agree with you Boggles, I don't see more-likely candidates although there aren't really any good ones. Lack of evidence makes for poor candidates..

I expect the usual suspects of Chapman and Koz will be trotted as as superior. I don't agree...

I wish we had more corroboration of Bury's East End meanderings. We do know he was a sick psychopath which at least ticks one box. Of course Chapman was too but Koz ticks only the schizo box.

My favorite candidate of late is Jacob Levy. His lack of casebook respect only strengthens my suspicions...


Greg

Hi Greg
i agree. there are none who are very superior-as you say there arent any real good ones. They are all pretty weak, and IMHO only a handful including Bury are the best of a bad lot. I would include Blotchy, hutch, bury, chapman, james kelly and Koz in that order. They all were either tied to the case in some way and/or were suspects of police at the time.

In my mind though the key may be Mary kelly. Out of all the victims it seems that she may have known her killer more so than just a chance encounter like the others. According to the witnesses she was with 4 men that night: Barnett, Blotchy, Hutch and A-man.
I would venture then that one of these men was probably mary kelly's killer.

Barnett- had an alibi and was thoroughly checked by police and was cleared.
Hutch- places himself at the scene and has several red flags about him, but may have just been an attention seeker.
A-man -probably a fabrication of Hutch.
Blotchy-last credible "suspect" seen with MK. My money is on him as most likely Mary Kellys killer and thus the ripper.

But as for Jacob levy? He seems to fit some kind of profile but he has no real connection to the case. I am afraid that from Anderson and via Fido people have been on a 125 year wild goose chase looking for a crazy jew.
The suspect page is littered with them already.

[DRoy]

Boggles,

really? would you be kind enough to name one of them??

How about someone...anyone the police were actually investigating? Is there anyone besides newspaper reporters that ever considered Bury? One officer at least? Nope, but his hangman did. Oh the hangman...then it must be so!

DRoy

[DRoy]

Greg,

I agree with you Boggles, I don't see more-likely candidates although there aren't really any good ones. Lack of evidence makes for poor candidates..

Lack of evidence is surely a problem for Bury supporters too isn't it? What evidence is there? If there was some then the case would be solved.

DRoy

[DRoy]

Abby,

I would include Blotchy, hutch, bury, chapman, james kelly and Koz in that order.

How does Blotchy fit in? Even if guilty of killing MJK, there is nothing to say he was involved in any of the others. Hutch? Same thing. At least we know Chapman was living and working in the area. Kelly? Nothing. Koz? We don't even know if we have the right Koz.

For the record, I don't have a suspect. However, I'm leaning towards 'Jack' not being responsible for all of the famous 5.

Cheers
DRoy

[Boggles]

Boggles,



How about someone...anyone the police were actually investigating? Is there anyone besides newspaper reporters that ever considered Bury? One officer at least? Nope, but his hangman did. Oh the hangman...then it must be so!

DRoy

i was hoping to have a rational debate. there is far more that implicates bury besides berry. if you are ruling a viable suspect on the basis the police did not investigate him at the time, this an unsolved case, then you lack much knowledge of serial killer investigation

[DRoy]

Boggles,

Haha! Okay you win!

Rational debate? Okay, please provide anything at all that links him to a murder site or a victim. If you can't do that then what else could you have that makes him so special? Was he a police suspect? No. But apparently you are smarter than them.

Ever consider that maybe it's you that lacks much knowledge about what is and what isn't evidence? Saying the newspapers said so isn't going to cut it (pun intended).

DRoy

[Abby Normal]

Boggles,

Haha! Okay you win!

Rational debate? Okay, please provide anything at all that links him to a murder site or a victim. If you can't do that then what else could you have that makes him so special? Was he a police suspect? No. But apparently you are smarter than them.

Ever consider that maybe it's you that lacks much knowledge about what is and what isn't evidence? Saying the newspapers said so isn't going to cut it (pun intended).

DRoy

Bury was a police suspect at the time, at the very least a person of interest. Once they got word of his arrest and conviction, Scotland yard sent detectives to Dundee to check him out. He is a known murderer of woman with knife, his arrival and departure from London coincide with the start and end of the murders, he lived in the area, was known to frequent prostitutes and be abusive to women, and fit most of the witness descriptions. Bury is a very viable suspect out of the ones we have.

[DRoy]

Abby,

Bury was a police suspect at the time, at the very least a person of interest. Once they got word of his arrest and conviction, Scotland yard sent detectives to Dundee to check him out.

Of course they checked him out. However, after checking him out, they never thought about it again. In other words, there was nothing there. No evidence. Nothing.

He is a known murderer of woman with knife

Is he the only one?

his arrival and departure from London coincide with the start and end of the murders

I wonder how many people can say the same thing?

he lived in the area

So did hundreds of thousands others

was known to frequent prostitutes and be abusive to women

So does that mean he killed them?

and fit most of the witness descriptions

Depending on which witnesses you believe actually saw 'Jack'

He is a good suspect. That's my opinion. I just don't believe he's one of the best suspects.

Cheers
DRoy

[Cogidubnus]

Great suspect

I have to say that judging by the evidence presented by Beadle and Macpherson, and the documentation shown by Will and others, I honestly believe Bury to be at least as good a suspect as any other I've seen promoted...far better than most in fact, because Bury has at least been proved capable of killing...

Ask me directly though if I think he was Jack, and I'd have to say I don't think so...but that's because I don't think Jack's any of the suspects named so far...

Fair enough?

All the best

Dave

[Boggles]

Droy, you had already said you dont think Bury is the best suspect, fine but please can you put money where mouth is and tell me who you believe is a stronger suspect? All i know is you believe it was someone the police were investigating at tge time, i have researched this case in some detail and would be fascinated in anyone you believe to ne a stronger candidate. lets do a like for like comparison based on what we now know about serial killers, and perhaps even put it to the vote , its good sport if nothing else?

[GregBaron]

Bury the hatchet...

But as for Jacob levy? He seems to fit some kind of profile but he has no real connection to the case. I am afraid that from Anderson and via Fido people have been on a 125 year wild goose chase looking for a crazy jew.
The suspect page is littered with them already.

You're probably right about the crazy Jew Abby. I should probably leave the poor b*stard alone. I should at least start a thread about why I like Levy and not careen this thread off the rails.

I do like your Blotchy theory because I think he could also be Lawende's sailor man. He could also be the red-face Jew hating Irishman that some suspect. His face could be scorched from foundry work or sailing the high seas.

I don't think the debate going on here is really a debate. We all know there's little evidence against anyone. Both DRoy and Boggles are right. Some like Bury because he ticks a lot of the boxes of what we expect, nothing more.

There's also an ongoing debate of the competency of the police. We have cops out here that support the unsupportable and pseudo-historians that think all the cops are buffoons. As usual, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Bury's a person of interest, now let's dig up more about him...


Greg

[DRoy]

Boggles,

I don't have a suspect nor do I think I need one. I'm not going to get into a childish debate over "my suspect is better than your suspect".

Bury killed his wife in a similar way "Jack" did. That's really all there is besides circumstantial 'evidence' (I use that word lightly). I could be mistaken but I don't believe that even one policeman ever believed Bury was the WM.

Please also remember, killing in a similar style of 'Jack' became a fad all over the world including the East End of London. There is still much debate over who 'Jack' killed including Liz who was one of the C5. Someone killed MacKenzie in the east end in a similar way to 'Jack' yet few believe her to be a victim of the Ripper.

Cheers
DRoy